Destroyer AI in Grey Wolves

briny_norman · 09-03-06, 05:27 AM

Hi - I'm thinking about downloading the Grey Wolves mod as I've heard good things about it.
But I was wondering if the mod alters the destroyer AI in any way.
I'm hoping for a more forgiving (realistic) enemy AI overall, as I'm getting my butt kicked rather a lot in stock SH3.

davidaspy · 09-03-06, 06:02 AM

I believe it does reduce the amount of elite destroyers and replaces them with slightly more forgiving ones.

Pablo · 09-03-06, 07:15 AM

Hi!

AFAIK the destroyer AI itself is hardcoded, and cannot be modified without disabling StarForce; however, there are a few parameters (such as minimum detection range) that can be tweaked without affecting the AI itself.

Pablo

Shahed · 09-03-06, 07:36 AM

Edit: NB This is not with regards to GW it's in the stock

The veteran and elite destroyers sometime become ridiculous, hearing through their own engines going 25 knots. They also have ESP and with psychic power start homing in on you from more than 12 kms away. Absurd. game.

bigboywooly · 09-03-06, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by briny_norman

Hi - I'm thinking about downloading the Grey Wolves mod as I've heard good things about it.
But I was wondering if the mod alters the destroyer AI in any way.
I'm hoping for a more forgiving (realistic) enemy AI overall, as I'm getting my butt kicked rather a lot in stock SH3.

Hi and welcome
Well its been a long time since I played the stock game but I do remember the destroyers werent that good

Dont let that put you off GW by the way - they are not uber and you can escape
All gets easier with experiance

Hylander_1314 · 09-03-06, 08:47 AM

Also, the depth mod works great with GW. Take a Type VII boat down over 200 meters, and go to ahead slow, and the escorts start depth charging the same area, and you can sneak away with relative ease as long as you're patient. Once you're down that far though, you have to maintain 2 knots to keep bouyant.

CCIP · 09-03-06, 10:34 AM

There is no AI changes in GW. Modders aren't able to change the AI.

However, there are changes to enemy sensors which seriously alter their detection capabilities - towards the better, of course.

Think of it this way - GW destoryers aren't smarter than vanilla ones, but they see and hear much better!

Wulfmann · 09-03-06, 07:21 PM

The original game starts escorts as idiots then makes them morons so life is pathetically easy. as each year passes it get harder but by 1944 all are elite and you have virtually no chance of escaping escorts that can drop cans like they have homing beacons.
It starts to easy and ends way too hard (as if it wasn't hard enough in real life)

GW 1.1 uses the now dated Improved Convoys. They did much to update other areas of the RND.mis file but the main convoys are, IMO, the weakest part of this release and will likely be greatly improved in the GWX.

While GW reduced the original uber escorts aspect they (again, IMO) made the sensors way too easy and without a realistic amount of convoys escorts (there are way too few) it does not replicate the convoy battles of 1943 nor 1944-45 when getting near a convoy was extremely difficult.

I prefer the NYGM sensors and things in this area. (Of course I do not agree with them either and have modded those as well)
The point is, you can mod this to suit your idea of reality or gaming preference as we all have varied opinions and what ever these great mod packs do they can not please everyone in every way.
There are many people that can assist you in tweaking further these things to suit your ideas. Just ask and someone will share what he has found and help you find what you want.
90% of GW is so good just tweaking the small areas to suit personal taste is far better than the ground up redo needed for the stock game.
Don’t be afraid to ask dumb questions because the only dumb one are the ones never asked

Wulfmann

Shahed · 09-03-06, 10:22 PM

Good post Wulf. I've only played GW, and it's fantastic. I feel the same that the convoys do need to be improved somehow. Don't ask me how because I have'nt much of a clue !

I tweaked a convoy in GW, the KMS. I made it look like the real thing. It was a bit heavy with 40+ ships, but the battle was incredible. I also tried to replicate the formation with specific spots for different freighters. I wanted to also add the names to the ships in the convoy to macth the real life ones, but I did'nt figure out how to do that or if it's possible at all. Must be I guess.

I got home with 45% Hull Integrity and hunted the convoy for about 3.5 weeks, before my bow tubes were destroyed. I made at least a dozen attacks on that convoy, taking one sheep at a time, sometimes two and three, but 2 or three times I broke off the attack to escape the escorts. Something interesting happened, I sunk an Aux Cruiser escort, and about a day later, a Clemson joined the formation, or at least was heading the same way, all the way to Alexandria. That one gave me a lot of worry.

Limping home, shot down a few aircraft, and sunk a Medium cargo with the deck gun with about 50 rounds. Docked at Tunis because I was'nt sure I would make it through Gibraltar, and also because there was another convoy that I met in this area, about 20 Kms NW of Valetta. I'm going back for that one, after I do a google, and try to replicate it in game.

I sense the trouble might be that the game will become too heavy if every single convoy if more than 40-50 ships, so I'll take them one at a time. See how far I can go before I run out of RAM and/or time.

09-03-06, 05:27 AM	#1
briny_norman Swabbie Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 13 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Destroyer AI in Grey Wolves Hi - I'm thinking about downloading the Grey Wolves mod as I've heard good things about it. But I was wondering if the mod alters the destroyer AI in any way. I'm hoping for a more forgiving (realistic) enemy AI overall, as I'm getting my butt kicked rather a lot in stock SH3.

09-03-06, 06:02 AM	#2
davidaspy Mate Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: North of the South Posts: 56 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	I believe it does reduce the amount of elite destroyers and replaces them with slightly more forgiving ones. __________________ Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines.

09-03-06, 07:36 AM	#4
Shahed Planesman Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 189 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Edit: NB This is not with regards to GW it's in the stock The veteran and elite destroyers sometime become ridiculous, hearing through their own engines going 25 knots. They also have ESP and with psychic power start homing in on you from more than 12 kms away. Absurd. game. __________________ IXC -U-126 DIE STEIGENDE SONNE, 26 PATROLS, ACTIVE. IXB -U-101 DER TEUFEL MITFAHRER, 1 PATROL, ACTIVE. Last edited by Shahed; 09-03-06 at 10:23 PM.

09-03-06, 08:47 AM	#6
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Also, the depth mod works great with GW. Take a Type VII boat down over 200 meters, and go to ahead slow, and the escorts start depth charging the same area, and you can sneak away with relative ease as long as you're patient. Once you're down that far though, you have to maintain 2 knots to keep bouyant. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

09-03-06, 10:34 AM	#7
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	There is no AI changes in GW. Modders aren't able to change the AI. However, there are changes to enemy sensors which seriously alter their detection capabilities - towards the better, of course. Think of it this way - GW destoryers aren't smarter than vanilla ones, but they see and hear much better! __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

09-03-06, 07:15 AM	#3
Pablo Commodore Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 641 Downloads: 168 Uploads: 0	Hi! AFAIK the destroyer AI itself is hardcoded, and cannot be modified without disabling StarForce; however, there are a few parameters (such as minimum detection range) that can be tweaked without affecting the AI itself. Pablo

09-03-06, 07:21 PM	#8
Wulfmann Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 1,010 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	The original game starts escorts as idiots then makes them morons so life is pathetically easy. as each year passes it get harder but by 1944 all are elite and you have virtually no chance of escaping escorts that can drop cans like they have homing beacons. It starts to easy and ends way too hard (as if it wasn't hard enough in real life) GW 1.1 uses the now dated Improved Convoys. They did much to update other areas of the RND.mis file but the main convoys are, IMO, the weakest part of this release and will likely be greatly improved in the GWX. While GW reduced the original uber escorts aspect they (again, IMO) made the sensors way too easy and without a realistic amount of convoys escorts (there are way too few) it does not replicate the convoy battles of 1943 nor 1944-45 when getting near a convoy was extremely difficult. I prefer the NYGM sensors and things in this area. (Of course I do not agree with them either and have modded those as well) The point is, you can mod this to suit your idea of reality or gaming preference as we all have varied opinions and what ever these great mod packs do they can not please everyone in every way. There are many people that can assist you in tweaking further these things to suit your ideas. Just ask and someone will share what he has found and help you find what you want. 90% of GW is so good just tweaking the small areas to suit personal taste is far better than the ground up redo needed for the stock game. Don’t be afraid to ask dumb questions because the only dumb one are the ones never asked Wulfmann __________________ "The right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed upon, if only to prevent tyranny in government" Thomas Jefferson,; Constitutional debates

09-03-06, 10:22 PM	#9
Shahed Planesman Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 189 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Good post Wulf. I've only played GW, and it's fantastic. I feel the same that the convoys do need to be improved somehow. Don't ask me how because I have'nt much of a clue ! I tweaked a convoy in GW, the KMS. I made it look like the real thing. It was a bit heavy with 40+ ships, but the battle was incredible. I also tried to replicate the formation with specific spots for different freighters. I wanted to also add the names to the ships in the convoy to macth the real life ones, but I did'nt figure out how to do that or if it's possible at all. Must be I guess. I got home with 45% Hull Integrity and hunted the convoy for about 3.5 weeks, before my bow tubes were destroyed. I made at least a dozen attacks on that convoy, taking one sheep at a time, sometimes two and three, but 2 or three times I broke off the attack to escape the escorts. Something interesting happened, I sunk an Aux Cruiser escort, and about a day later, a Clemson joined the formation, or at least was heading the same way, all the way to Alexandria. That one gave me a lot of worry. Limping home, shot down a few aircraft, and sunk a Medium cargo with the deck gun with about 50 rounds. Docked at Tunis because I was'nt sure I would make it through Gibraltar, and also because there was another convoy that I met in this area, about 20 Kms NW of Valetta. I'm going back for that one, after I do a google, and try to replicate it in game. I sense the trouble might be that the game will become too heavy if every single convoy if more than 40-50 ships, so I'll take them one at a time. See how far I can go before I run out of RAM and/or time. __________________ IXC -U-126 DIE STEIGENDE SONNE, 26 PATROLS, ACTIVE. IXB -U-101 DER TEUFEL MITFAHRER, 1 PATROL, ACTIVE.