T3 Tanker with Lights is ready.

[Anvart]

**********

[bigboywooly]

You da man
Now wheres the link:hmm:
Thanx Anvart - another great looking job

[Ducimus]

Great work, but i think the lights illluminating the flag is a bit much, its like putting a big billboard on the ship saying, "Shoot here!"

[bigboywooly]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Great work, but i think the lights illluminating the flag is a bit much, its like putting a big billboard on the ship saying, "Shoot here!"

They are only meant for neutral ships and they were lit up to avoid torpedoing

[Ducimus]

True, but not all neutrals were lite up. Some were darkened and even zig zagging.

[bigboywooly]

True but at their own peril

http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUKTB30248.htm

Naval War Staff has sent a T/P to F.O. U/B, ordering that all attacks on French ships are to be avoided at all costs. This means that U-boats cannot operate in the Channel against troop transports. This operation (U 35 see also F.O. U/B West's War Log) was arranged because of Naval War Staff's orders that convoys could be attacked North of the Latitude of Brest even if the escort consisted of French Forces. It can be taken as certain that these transports sail at night; and at night the U-boat must be able to assume that a darkened ship is an enemy ship, even if in convoy. It is often impossible to establish the nationality of ships in convoy even by day and when flags are not being misused, but at night it is quite out of the question. I therefore informed Naval War Staff that, if this order is to stand, I cannot let the boats operate in the Channel

[Ducimus]

Let me rewind a bit.

First, i think this is an awesome mod. Its never been done before. The author of this mod has done something totally different, not just another version of something else, and for that is worthy of high praise, i think this kicks ass.


Now, what im also looking at, is challenging gameplay, and how this will effect it. Naturaly, if you don't like a mod, don't use it, right? Well, i do like this mod, so im trying to figure out how to apply it in such a way to preserve challenging gameplay.

I think on lone neutral ships, this would work great! Hositpal ships espeically. But now think of a night surface attack against a convoy. One of the risks you run, is accidently torpedoing a neutral ship, if any happen to be in there. For the most part i think most neutural have been removed from convoys, but i can't say for sure. So on the assumption theres a neutral in there, how now he's light up like a christams tree while the rest of the convoy is in blacked out. So the danger of accidently torpedoing a neutral ship has been totally removed.

It all varies on what you want really. If your designing your game to where you want to present that risk to the player, then lite up neturals becomes an issue. On the otherhand if you didnt want that risk in your game to begin with, then your've probably removed all neutrals from convoys, at which point my concern over challenging gameplay is irrelvant

[bigboywooly]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Let me rewind a bit.

First, i think this is an awesome mod. Its never been done before. The author of this mod has done something totally different, not just another version of something else, and for that is worthy of high praise, i think this kicks ass.


Now, what im also looking at, is challenging gameplay, and how this will effect it. Naturaly, if you don't like a mod, don't use it, right? Well, i do like this mod, so im trying to figure out how to apply it in such a way to preserve challenging gameplay.

I think on lone neutral ships, this would work great! Hositpal ships espeically. But now think of a night surface attack against a convoy. One of the risks you run, is accidently torpedoing a neutral ship, if any happen to be in there. For the most part i think most neutural have been removed from convoys, but i can't say for sure. So on the assumption theres a neutral in there, how now he's light up like a christams tree while the rest of the convoy is in blacked out. So the danger of accidently torpedoing a neutral ship has been totally removed.

It all varies on what you want really. If your designing your game to where you want to present that risk to the player, then lite up neturals becomes an issue. On the otherhand if you didnt want that risk in your game to begin with, then your've probably removed all neutrals from convoys, at which point my concern over challenging gameplay is irrelvant

Agreed Decimus
I have removed all neutrals from my convoy because I have just replaced the neutral darkened ships with the lit ones in their rosters - not just the completely neutral but have added them to US as lit ships while they are neutral but the original darkened ships take over when the US enters the war, have done the same with most of the other countries too such as the Dutch,Norway and Greece to name a few

You could go thru the rnd and scr layers to change all single neutral ships to lit ones and leave the convoys alone
A lot of work but depends on how you want to play


I totally agree Anvart has done a great job with this and his other lit ships and I hope he continues to do them all - tho if he doesnt I will be more than happy with his great work so far

[CWorth]

From everything I have read neutrals should not even be in convoys no matter how challenging you want it.It is not accurate as neutrals would not have been in the convoy as they were fair game to the uboats.

I use the GW mod and just today I ran into a convoy off the west coast of Britain that had 3 neutrals tagging along at the rear.

I personally would prefer to have all neutrals lit up and not have any dark ones since you could not attack them anyway without losing renown.

Unless there was a way to make it so the lit ones were untouchable and the non lit ones were able to be attacked without loss of reknown then I would not mind having both.But I doubt that the games code would allow for that.So you have to make a choice of one or the other.And for me the lit up neutrals would be more accurate.

[Boris]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Let me rewind a bit.

First, i think this is an awesome mod. Its never been done before. The author of this mod has done something totally different, not just another version of something else, and for that is worthy of high praise, i think this kicks ass.


Now, what im also looking at, is challenging gameplay, and how this will effect it. Naturaly, if you don't like a mod, don't use it, right? Well, i do like this mod, so im trying to figure out how to apply it in such a way to preserve challenging gameplay.

I think on lone neutral ships, this would work great! Hositpal ships espeically. But now think of a night surface attack against a convoy. One of the risks you run, is accidently torpedoing a neutral ship, if any happen to be in there. For the most part i think most neutural have been removed from convoys, but i can't say for sure. So on the assumption theres a neutral in there, how now he's light up like a christams tree while the rest of the convoy is in blacked out. So the danger of accidently torpedoing a neutral ship has been totally removed.

It all varies on what you want really. If your designing your game to where you want to present that risk to the player, then lite up neturals becomes an issue. On the otherhand if you didnt want that risk in your game to begin with, then your've probably removed all neutrals from convoys, at which point my concern over challenging gameplay is irrelvant

The risk of shooting neutrals in convoy never existed in RL anyway, as anything travelling in convoy was considered a viable target, as I'm sure everyone here knows. So it was really only a fake constraint that the game placed on the player. So, yeah... removing all neutral from convoys would be the ideal solution to the neutrals problem by having no reknown hits and preventing lit ships in convoy.

[iambecomelife]

Neutrals definitely sailed in convoy, although they were distrusted by the skippers of belligerent ships. They would have been blacked out but still had civilian paint schemes IIRC. The "Janus" (below) was one neutral, in-convoy U-Boat victim.

As bigboywooly mentioned, neutrals in convoy are fair game. We could easily clone neutral ships and nations so that some could sail darkened and in convoy (generating positive renown) while others could sail independently with lights blazing (negative renown).


Picture courtesy of Uboat.net

[GT182]

On Neutrals in SHIII. I have sank a few in the years 1940 up thru 1943. Some were even American ships when America was still neutral. Never was I penalized for sinking a neutral ship. As has been said before... if a neutral ship in a convoy heading to the warzone, they are fair game. Of course if they were headiing west but still in a convoy, they'd still be fair game. The only neutrals I never torpedoed were the single ship. But then again, I never have seen very many of them. Only a couple actually, but they were only in a 2 ship group.

Anvart, yours is truely a great mod. Ships lit up make SHIII even better than before. My only concern would be any ship lit in a convoy being true to life, and being lit makes them a better target. Of course if you attack a convoy at night and you're detected, their search lights come on making them a great target too. So I'd think it's a preference call by the player.... some will like lights and some won't. As long as you can make the mods workable thru the JSGME mod installer, it'll be better so everyone can use lights when they want or take them out when they don't want them. Remember, you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time.

One other thought and a question too. Shipping in your home port. Will they show lights too for the ones you made the mods for? That's where the effect will look the greatest I'd think. And if you could make it so their lights go out once they are attacked either by air or sea would be even better.

So, bring on more ships with lighting, they look great. I will use them at times, and at times I'll keep them blacked out.

Any Neutrals in a Convoy would be a legitimate target.

I don't think the Convoy Commander would allow any ships to be lite up, even neutrals.

[CWorth]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

We could easily clone neutral ships and nations so that some could sail darkened and in convoy (generating positive renown) while others could sail independently with lights blazing (negative renown).

I was not sure if this was possible but now that I see it is then I would love it.

[Boris]

Originally Posted by CWorth

I was not sure if this was possible but now that I see it is then I would love it.

This is certainly possible, but from what I understand it's not that easy. It would take some time and involves hex editing etc.
Nevertheless this is something that should eventually be done IMO.