Getting into Loch Ewe

[The Renegade]

Alright so I have gotten curious on some of my patrols and thought I could sneak right up Tommie's arse. The point of entry---Loch Ewe. I didn't think it would be too hard, considering it's not a major port (or so I think) and it's still 1939 in my career. I was also intrigued by the good possibility of the Nelson battleship being there, which I have read about here.

Anwyway, the story.

I was cruising along the surface on my Type VII-B sub, named U-36, nicknamed "The Jolly Roger," on account of the skull and crossbones adorning the conning tower. I was about 100km away from Loch Ewe, and then I spotted a lone vessel. The skies were overcast, adding to my surface stealth, and my potential target was a C2 cargo, so I pursued it and easily sank it with two fish. I continued on to Loch Ewe, where the watch spotted a few warships patrolling. The dive order was given, and the Jolly Roger quickly slipped under the waves. I continued on, undetected, and when I neared the port, I heard a noise and saw that U-36 was taking damage.

Alright I kinda have to go somewhere and you can't save unfinished posts so I'll just make this short. It was a subnet, which I had never seen before. I didn't want to surface, and I couldn't slip by underwater, so I reloaded the game and steered towards the coastal waters, where I thought the subnet wouldn't be. Then, the boat took serious damage, and eventually was crushed by flooding. I presumed it to be a mine. Great, mines and subnets.

So, my question is, how the hell do you slip by all these defenses? I mean, it's 1939, and I can't get in! Am I not being careful enough, is it just bad luck, or do I not know the secret of sneaking into enemy harbors?

[cynos]

Firstly, pretty much any harbour is near suicidal to attack. Do you have the Grey Wolves mod?

Secondly, Loch Ewe is more suicidal than most. It's a great big bottlenecked harbour, and its heavily defended. Try starting with something like Hartlepool.

I had a particularly bad experience with Loch Ewe myself, I wrote an AAR about it here - http://www.kiwisim.net.nz/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2103

That said... I'm plotting the defenses of harbours as I go (I could just jump in the scenario editor, but that'd be cheating.) so I'll share my secret with you.

You need a nice sunny day, and to be at periscope depth. Move at ahead slow, so around 2 knots, and move to the observation scope (wider field of view.)

Using the insert key, raise it just high enough that you can see underwater, but not enough to break the surface and cause a wake. Remember, you'll need a sunny day to be able to see, and you'll need to move slow to stay safe. It's verrrry painstaking.

If you can sneak into Loch Ewe and out without getting pounded, well done. I'd suggest plotting the defenses first. Or cheating and checking them out in the scenario editor.

[The Renegade]

Originally Posted by cynos

Firstly, pretty much any harbour is near suicidal to attack. Do you have the Grey Wolves mod?

Secondly, Loch Ewe is more suicidal than most. It's a great big bottlenecked harbour, and its heavily defended. Try starting with something like Hartlepool.

I had a particularly bad experience with Loch Ewe myself, I wrote an AAR about it here - http://www.kiwisim.net.nz/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2103

That said... I'm plotting the defenses of harbours as I go (I could just jump in the scenario editor, but that'd be cheating.) so I'll share my secret with you.

You need a nice sunny day, and to be at periscope depth. Move at ahead slow, so around 2 knots, and move to the observation scope (wider field of view.)

Using the insert key, raise it just high enough that you can see underwater, but not enough to break the surface and cause a wake. Remember, you'll need a sunny day to be able to see, and you'll need to move slow to stay safe. It's verrrry painstaking.

If you can sneak into Loch Ewe and out without getting pounded, well done. I'd suggest plotting the defenses first. Or cheating and checking them out in the scenario editor.

Thanks for your reply. I read your patrol report/AAR and it was quite good. I had never thought of waiting for a boat in order to follow it in. It may not be completely successful, but it is a good method.

That method with the periscope sounds good for avoiding mines. And you're right about needing a sunny day. I do have the GW mod and the water is almost impossible to see through when it's anything but sunny.

The subnets seem to be a bit trickier. I'm hoping there's some sort of break in the line or if it's possible to squeak over it in between those rocks/weights. I was thinking though, and it may be possible to surface and go in at night. It would bypass all the undersea defenses, although you'd have to avoid the destroyers and such.

Plotting the defenses is a great idea though, so I guess I'll have to develop some patience. Many thanks for all the advice.

[andy_311]

Originally Posted by cynos

Firstly, pretty much any harbour is near suicidal to attack. Do you have the Grey Wolves mod?

Secondly, Loch Ewe is more suicidal than most. It's a great big bottlenecked harbour, and its heavily defended. Try starting with something like Hartlepool.

I had a particularly bad experience with Loch Ewe myself, I wrote an AAR about it here - http://www.kiwisim.net.nz/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2103

That said... I'm plotting the defenses of harbours as I go (I could just jump in the scenario editor, but that'd be cheating.) so I'll share my secret with you.

You need a nice sunny day, and to be at periscope depth. Move at ahead slow, so around 2 knots, and move to the observation scope (wider field of view.)

Using the insert key, raise it just high enough that you can see underwater, but not enough to break the surface and cause a wake. Remember, you'll need a sunny day to be able to see, and you'll need to move slow to stay safe. It's verrrry painstaking.

If you can sneak into Loch Ewe and out without getting pounded, well done. I'd suggest plotting the defenses first. Or cheating and checking them out in the scenario editor.

I would disagree with the sunny day,i been in LE in all sorts of weathers,I enter the loch just of dead centre of the channel and proceed towards the harbour and make my way to the SW side of the harbour that's were all the goodies are (BB's Cruiser,Tankers,etc)

[Khayman]

Originally Posted by andy_311

I would disagree with the sunny day,i been in LE in all sorts of weathers,I enter the loch just of dead centre of the channel and proceed towards the harbour and make my way to the SW side of the harbour that's were all the goodies are (BB's Cruiser,Tankers,etc)

You do just what I always used to with Freetown i.e cruise happily through a minefield without hitting one. It's scary when you peruse the mission editor and realise the risks you were taking. I don't think it's too much of a spoiler to say that your method of entry takes you through at least one minefield.

The only time I went in there was May 1943 (I kid you not). I should have known the date was an ominous one - and taken the hint from constant air attacks at night due to only partial darkness. Made charging batteries and a surface run to the entrance almost impossible. When I did penetrate the harbour I was pinged and destroyed in the shallow water. Give me Freetown any day, or Scapa with the eastern entrances.

[andy_311]

Originally Posted by Khayman

You do just what I always used to with Freetown i.e cruise happily through a minefield without hitting one. It's scary when you peruse the mission editor and realise the risks you were taking. I don't think it's too much of a spoiler to say that your method of entry takes you through at least one minefield.

The only time I went in there was May 1943 (I kid you not). I should have known the date was an ominous one - and taken the hint from constant air attacks at night due to only partial darkness. Made charging batteries and a surface run to the entrance almost impossible. When I did penetrate the harbour I was pinged and destroyed in the shallow water. Give me Freetown any day, or Scapa with the eastern entrances.

Oh it's still scary for me but I have done it for some time now a going in there does give me a kick okay the Nelson there,a Fiji,V&W T3,T2,Hospital ship (anyone stupid to sink her -100000 renown),onthe other side a C2 and a few fishing boats the rest are Neutral.It just gets boreing after a while.
One of these days am going to try penitrate Portsmouth harbour the depth into the harbour is only 4M deep and gun emplacments all over the place.

[cynos]

Originally Posted by andy_311

I would disagree with the sunny day,i been in LE in all sorts of weathers,I enter the loch just of dead centre of the channel and proceed towards the harbour and make my way to the SW side of the harbour that's were all the goodies are (BB's Cruiser,Tankers,etc)

Fair enough... once you know the way in.

Renegade - If you try to run across the top of a subnet on the surface, you'll make a whole lot of noise... I had real issues getting out of Wilhelmshaven until I clicked. I'm pretty damned sure same applies to boats with a draft equal or greater than yours. I haven't met a sub net that has no break in it yet, apart from some of the nets across some of the sound between Hoy and Flotta in the Orkneys (Flotta being the "C" shaped island to the left of Hoxa Sound.)



There's also nets and mines across the bay on South Ronaldsay near the entrance into Scapa Flow proper. Note that this is with the Grey Wolves mod.

In other words, there'll always be a channel into a harbour that has no sub-nets. But seriously, a harbour is a horrible place to attack something. Try it a few times, and you'll see what I mean.

Oh, and in the Grey Wolves mod, areas of deep water in harbours tend to be subnetted and/or mined, e.g., Waulkmill Bay in Scapa Flow.

Andy - the sunny day thing is for using your scope to dodge mines etc. on the way in - These images are from me plotting a minefield around Hartlepool.

(this is the bit that needs good light...)


(the marks are spotted mines.)


Interestingly enough, I got spotted by the armed trawler shortly thereafter, but it started searching around the minefield perimeter when I'd charged straight into it... it only came in when I surfaced and shot at it woth my deck gun to test a theory.

I think the AI assumes you'll avoid minefields.

[bigboywooly]

Gentleman
There is a program available called SH3 gen
This will read your SCR and RND and plot information on your map - you can choose the level of intel you want with a slider
You will then have a nav map marked with minefields and subnets ane information about what ships may be in any particular harbour
Great tool that works with any mod

http://www.global-explorer.de/

You can take it as cheating or take it that its information relayed back to BDU from other boats that have been in a particular area

[cynos]

Hmmm... interesting... but damn, that's an ethical quandry.

[Khayman]

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

Gentleman
There is a program available called SH3 gen
This will read your SCR and RND and plot information on your map - you can choose the level of intel you want with a slider
You will then have a nav map marked with minefields and subnets ane information about what ships may be in any particular harbour
Great tool that works with any mod

It is a great mod, but it won't help you get into Loch Ewe. At max intel it will have a marker where a minefield is, but you will have no idea where it starts or how far it extends.

I also still take issue with the way in being the center of the channel. Fair enough I use the Harbour Traffic mod, so maybe minefields are different in GW. If so then I think I'll download it before I try Loch Ewe, since with my mod it's a nightmare.