Things I learned from watching U-571

Subnuts · 06-03-06, 06:13 PM

* A 200-foot long stationary object is untouchable at 150 yards.
* A German supply submarine is a regular U-boat with an extra 20mm AA gun.
* A leaky 25-year old submarine is a prestigious command.
* A ship struck in the bow will explode deck-first in an enormous fireball.
* A torpedo can travel 400 yards in ten seconds
* A vessel that requires 45 men to operate efficiently can be operated with only six men (four of whom are on the bridge). These six men can also repair the vessel to working order in a few hours.
* American aircraft have convenient 10-foot tall "US NAVY" markings. On the TOP of the wings.
* Atlantic storms are usually accompanied by a mild rain shower.
* Being shot a dozen times at close range is a relatively clean affair.
* Black men weren't just 'token' in the '40s.
* British and German destroyers could drop about 60 depth charges at a time.
* Confusion will not take over when the captain orders a dive, but signals to surface on the diving alarm.
* Depth charges can crack your spine and knock your teeth out, but can't damage a submarine two feet away.
* Destroyers always appear out of nowhere.
* Destroyers usually take on the appearance of a large ocean-going tug.
* Diesel engines can be turned on 20 meters under water.
* Diesel fuel explodes in enormous fireballs.
* Each U-boat crewman was issued an MP-40.
* Everybody smoked in the 40s, but nobody actually inhaled.
* Fighter-sized patrol planes could operate in the mid-Atlantic.
* German destroyers regularly appeared in the North Atlantic in mid-1942.
* German U-boats had cozy lounges with leather sofas and expensive tables.
* It's okay to spray gunfire around in a cramped metal tube.
* It's possible to locate the exact location a crippled sub based on it's radio signals, which you can not decrypt.
* Mechanics hang out in one spot while being depth charged.
* Red light is all-encompassing.
* Submarine-mounted deck guns had laser-like accuracy.
* Submariners completely unadapted to a new submarine type adjust in about 45 seconds.
* Submarines in WWII routinely engaged in underwater dogfights.
* Submarines remain on the surface even after a crash dive has been ordered.
* The best way to attack an unescorted merchant at night is submerged, using the search periscope.
* The control panels on a German submarine are "all in German!"
* The electrician berserker squad was the most lethal German fighting force at the time.
* The French resistance could obtain extremely high-quality photographs, but could not obtain the subject of said photographs.
* The handle that activates the stern torpedo tube is located in the bilge.
* Torpedo tube inner doors (and the torpedoes within) can survive the water pressure at 700 feet.
* Torpedoes have 10,000-pound warheads.
* U-boat crewmen were never cross-trained to operate diesel engines.
* U-boats machine gunned survivors in lifeboats "every now and then".
* You can't hold your breath for six minutes straight.
* You should Wave your hands heroically while drowning instead of shouting "throw me a f**king rope!"

Torplexed · 06-03-06, 06:31 PM

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Must include: Of course you can launch two torpedoes simultaneously....trim tanks....who needs trim tanks?

Ula Jolly · 06-03-06, 06:41 PM

AHAHAWmygood goddess of laughter! :rotfl:
Most of these I didn't even register when I watched the film.

Also... When a submarine is engaged by a German destroyer, it is perfectly feasible for the crew of said submarine to lure the destroyer into range of Allied aircraft.

Torplexed · 06-03-06, 06:57 PM

That reminds of one of my favorite (read awful) quotes from that movie:

Wentz:"If we head for England, we're gonna go straight through the western approaches."
Sailor:"He's right... I mean, thats Jerry's backyard."

I wonder how many Germans who came under air attack would beg to differ?

Ducimus · 06-03-06, 07:23 PM

What i wondered, was where the hell were they were they thought they could lure that destroyer into allied air cover and "call in an air strike".

And they way they were talking, you'd swear they thought they could lure said destroyer submerged.. allll that way.. Suuuuurreeeeee they could.

bigboywooly · 06-03-06, 07:25 PM

the worst thing about U571 is its just a load of Hollywood b*ll*cks

The enigma codes were not captured that way or by the US but by the Royal Navy from 2 different submarines

U559
FateSunk 30 Oct, 1942 in the Mediterranean north-east of Port Said, in position 32.30N, 33.00E, by depth charges from the British destroyers HMS Pakenham, HMS Petard and HMS Hero and the British escort destroyers HMS Dulverton and HMS Hurworth, and a British Wellesley aircraft from RAF 47 Sqn. 7 dead and 38 survivors.
The boat was boarded by 3 men who had swum over to the sinking wreck. They went into the boat and captured several vital secret documents which greatly helped (some say, enabled) to break the German Enigma code machine. 2 of the 3 drowned inside the boat while still handing out files.

U110
FateCaptured on 9 May, 1941 in the North Atlantic south of Iceland by the destroyers HMS Bulldog, HMS Broadway and the British corvette HMS Aubretia. The boat was allowed to sink the day after to preserve the secret capture. 15 dead and 32 survivors.
"The Secret Capture"
U-110 met its end on May 9, 1941 when it was captured . This is what most people view as the most important capture of the entire war and it was so secret that even the crew of U-110 did not know of it! U-110, under the command of Kptlt. Fritz Julius Lemp, had been attacking a convoy along with U-201 (Oblt. Adalbert Schnee) when Lemp left his periscope up too long (probably to confirm a kill, he sank two ships on that day amounting to 7500 GRT) and the escort HMS Aubretia spotted it and rushed to the scene dropping depth charges.
U-110 survived the first attacks but then HMS Bulldog and HMS Broadway came and joined in the hunt. U-110 was forced to surface and HMS Bulldog immediately went onto ramming course (its commander realized at the very last moment that a capture might come off and tried to avoid hitting U-110 which he almost did) which Lemp noticed and ordered "Abandon Ship". Lemp figured that since the boat was going to be rammed (and presumably sunk) its secrets were safe within it. Only when he was in the water did he realize that the boat was not sinking and attempted to swim back and prevent capture and that was the last seen of him. Many say he was shot in the water by a British sailor but that may not be at all true.
The British made several journeys between U-110 and HMS Bulldog to collect whatever they could get their hands on inside the boat. This must have been a real treat as U-110 was abandoned in a hurry and being a IXB class she did not sink as rapidly as VIIC would likely have done. It is very likely that numerous U-boats were sunk using the material found inside U-110. The day after the boat was captured someone realized that the allies already had the most important part of U-110, namely the secret documents and Enigma machine and that the Germans might find out that the British had the boat soon and, assuming the worst, change all codes and cipher system. The boat thus "accidentally" sank when being towed to Britain. 15 men were killed in the action and 32 captured. Lemp himself did not survive as noted above.

No mention of the USN in there then lol

Umfuld · 06-03-06, 07:31 PM

It's on Bravo right now.

06-04-06, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

the worst thing about U571 is its just a load of Hollywood b*ll*cks

The enigma codes were not captured that way or by the US but by the Royal Navy from 2 different submarines...etc.

We've all known that was the real problem with U-571 from the day it was released. Of course it has nothing to do with history, or with much of anything else. The point of the thread was the funny parts...we know the rest.

The_Blockade_Runner · 06-04-06, 03:21 AM

U-571 is not that bad of a movie. Sure its not historically accurate, but its entertaining to watch. Who would want to watch a bunch of guys sail around all movie in a glorified pop can doing nothing. You can't use TC in the movies, so action is always happpening.

Since they were in a sub they needed something to attack for the plot, so they threw in a german destroyer.

Drebbel · 06-04-06, 03:48 AM

I agree. It is a fun action movie !!

Puster Bill · 06-04-06, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subnuts

* It's possible to locate the exact location a crippled sub based on it's radio signals, which you can not decrypt.

Actually, that is true. It is called 'High Frequency Direction Finding', HF/DF, or as the Brits liked to call it 'Huff Duff'. In fact, that is an excellent way to tell where a crippled submarine is. This is because it gives you (to varying degrees of accuracy, depending on a number of technical factors) a chance to locate where a target is without needing to derive intelligence from the actual message transmitted. It is of more limited use when the target is mobile, because they can transmit from one location and then move to a different one before you can deploy assets in that area.

In the general field of Signals Intelligence, there are three ways of gaining information on the people you are monitoring:

1. The creme de la creme, the timely decryption of encrypted target signals. It goes without saying that this is the gold standard of SIGINT, as it not only can tell you where a particular target is and what it is doing, but can also tell you of their future plans.

2. Direction Finding: Allows you to find the location of a specific transmitter. This works by having several different receiving stations take simultaineous bearings when the target is transmitting. Then, you simply draw lines on a map from each of those stations, and where they intersect is where the target is.

3. Traffic Analysis: You can derive a lot of useful intelligence just by observing what stations communicate, and what actions happen both before and after they communicate. You can then make assumptions in the future about what will happen based on patterns observed.

I have to agree with most of the list, however. A better movie for this sort of thing is "Enigma", starring Dougray Scott, Kate Winslet, and Saffron Burrows (Yowser! hubba-hubba!). It has some flaws also, but none anywhere near as egregious as U-571. The main one is that the main character in the movie is supposed to be Alan Turing, who was gay, not lusting after Ms. Burrows in silk stockings (c'mon, Puster Bill, concentrate!). The Morse in that movie is actually pretty good. Most of the times, Morse in the movies is just gibberish.

/Ex Army 05H (Electronic Warfare Signals Intelligence Morse Interceptor)
//Current Ham Radio op.

fred8615 · 06-07-06, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subnuts

* American aircraft have convenient 10-foot tall "US NAVY" markings. On the TOP of the wings.

Actually, they did. Especially before the war. I've seen the pictures.

Quote:

* Black men weren't just 'token' in the '40s.

They weren't, at least not in the Navy, where onboard ship you had to be able to do different tasks. Although they were primarly cooks, mess attendants, and orderlies, blacks in the navy also had combat assignments as well. One ship's captain had his men trained and used as AA gunners. Others were used as damage control, ammo handlers, medical orderlies, etc.

Quote:

* The French resistance could obtain extremely high-quality photographs, but could not obtain the subject of said photographs.

Are you talking about the photos of the Enigma machine? Did the movie actually say they were taken by the resistance? Because the British already had an Enigma machine, which they got from the Poles. Although this does fly in the face of the seemingly main premise of the movie (they need the machine), in fact all they really needed was the settings for it, i.e., the codebooks. The pictures were (I always assumed anyway) of the one the Brits already had.

Snakeeyes · 06-08-06, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subnuts

* A 200-foot long stationary object is untouchable at 150 yards.
* A German supply submarine is a regular U-boat with an extra 20mm AA gun.
* A leaky 25-year old submarine is a prestigious command.
* A ship struck in the bow will explode deck-first in an enormous fireball.
* A torpedo can travel 400 yards in ten seconds
* A vessel that requires 45 men to operate efficiently can be operated with only six men (four of whom are on the bridge). These six men can also repair the vessel to working order in a few hours.
* American aircraft have convenient 10-foot tall "US NAVY" markings. On the TOP of the wings.
* Atlantic storms are usually accompanied by a mild rain shower.
* Being shot a dozen times at close range is a relatively clean affair.
* Black men weren't just 'token' in the '40s.
* British and German destroyers could drop about 60 depth charges at a time.
* Confusion will not take over when the captain orders a dive, but signals to surface on the diving alarm.
* Depth charges can crack your spine and knock your teeth out, but can't damage a submarine two feet away.
* Destroyers always appear out of nowhere.
* Destroyers usually take on the appearance of a large ocean-going tug.
* Diesel engines can be turned on 20 meters under water.
* Diesel fuel explodes in enormous fireballs.
* Each U-boat crewman was issued an MP-40.
* Everybody smoked in the 40s, but nobody actually inhaled.
* Fighter-sized patrol planes could operate in the mid-Atlantic.
* German destroyers regularly appeared in the North Atlantic in mid-1942.
* German U-boats had cozy lounges with leather sofas and expensive tables.
* It's okay to spray gunfire around in a cramped metal tube.
* It's possible to locate the exact location a crippled sub based on it's radio signals, which you can not decrypt.
* Mechanics hang out in one spot while being depth charged.
* Red light is all-encompassing.
* Submarine-mounted deck guns had laser-like accuracy.
* Submariners completely unadapted to a new submarine type adjust in about 45 seconds.
* Submarines in WWII routinely engaged in underwater dogfights.
* Submarines remain on the surface even after a crash dive has been ordered.
* The best way to attack an unescorted merchant at night is submerged, using the search periscope.
* The control panels on a German submarine are "all in German!"
* The electrician berserker squad was the most lethal German fighting force at the time.
* The French resistance could obtain extremely high-quality photographs, but could not obtain the subject of said photographs.
* The handle that activates the stern torpedo tube is located in the bilge.
* Torpedo tube inner doors (and the torpedoes within) can survive the water pressure at 700 feet.
* Torpedoes have 10,000-pound warheads.
* U-boat crewmen were never cross-trained to operate diesel engines.
* U-boats machine gunned survivors in lifeboats "every now and then".
* You can't hold your breath for six minutes straight.
* You should Wave your hands heroically while drowning instead of shouting "throw me a f**king rope!"

Now Now... I admit... the movie is full of crap but it was intended to be a more modern look at the classic WWII sub movies of yor. Those old ones were REALLY far-fetched yet I bet I would catch you guys watching them if you had nothing to do on a Saturday afternoon with the game rained out.

P_Funk · 06-11-06, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeeyes

Now Now... I admit... the movie is full of crap but it was intended to be a more modern look at the classic WWII sub movies of yor. Those old ones were REALLY far-fetched yet I bet I would catch you guys watching them if you had nothing to do on a Saturday afternoon with the game rained out.

True. I'd probably be yelling "Yawol, ya bilge spewing redneck. If Jurgen Prochnow were here he probably laugh bitterly and go have a smoke with the WO"

kholemann · 06-12-06, 04:22 PM

My wife got me the DVD of that movie cuz she knows I like that part of history. I watched it and almost vomited. I couldn't really say anything to her. I am confident that if I didn't know so much about the history of naval warfare in WWII that I would have really enjoyed the movie. So much is wrong with it, even fictionalized, I just couldn't ever watch it again unless inebreated. The most mind boggling thing was the German Destroyer out in the Atlantic. If Bon Jovi would have broke into song with the other guys doing backup, it would at least have made for a more entertaining (if not horried train-wrecking) of a movie.

06-03-06, 06:13 PM	#1
Subnuts The Old Man Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,658 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Things I learned from watching U-571 * A 200-foot long stationary object is untouchable at 150 yards. * A German supply submarine is a regular U-boat with an extra 20mm AA gun. * A leaky 25-year old submarine is a prestigious command. * A ship struck in the bow will explode deck-first in an enormous fireball. * A torpedo can travel 400 yards in ten seconds * A vessel that requires 45 men to operate efficiently can be operated with only six men (four of whom are on the bridge). These six men can also repair the vessel to working order in a few hours. * American aircraft have convenient 10-foot tall "US NAVY" markings. On the TOP of the wings. * Atlantic storms are usually accompanied by a mild rain shower. * Being shot a dozen times at close range is a relatively clean affair. * Black men weren't just 'token' in the '40s. * British and German destroyers could drop about 60 depth charges at a time. * Confusion will not take over when the captain orders a dive, but signals to surface on the diving alarm. * Depth charges can crack your spine and knock your teeth out, but can't damage a submarine two feet away. * Destroyers always appear out of nowhere. * Destroyers usually take on the appearance of a large ocean-going tug. * Diesel engines can be turned on 20 meters under water. * Diesel fuel explodes in enormous fireballs. * Each U-boat crewman was issued an MP-40. * Everybody smoked in the 40s, but nobody actually inhaled. * Fighter-sized patrol planes could operate in the mid-Atlantic. * German destroyers regularly appeared in the North Atlantic in mid-1942. * German U-boats had cozy lounges with leather sofas and expensive tables. * It's okay to spray gunfire around in a cramped metal tube. * It's possible to locate the exact location a crippled sub based on it's radio signals, which you can not decrypt. * Mechanics hang out in one spot while being depth charged. * Red light is all-encompassing. * Submarine-mounted deck guns had laser-like accuracy. * Submariners completely unadapted to a new submarine type adjust in about 45 seconds. * Submarines in WWII routinely engaged in underwater dogfights. * Submarines remain on the surface even after a crash dive has been ordered. * The best way to attack an unescorted merchant at night is submerged, using the search periscope. * The control panels on a German submarine are "all in German!" * The electrician berserker squad was the most lethal German fighting force at the time. * The French resistance could obtain extremely high-quality photographs, but could not obtain the subject of said photographs. * The handle that activates the stern torpedo tube is located in the bilge. * Torpedo tube inner doors (and the torpedoes within) can survive the water pressure at 700 feet. * Torpedoes have 10,000-pound warheads. * U-boat crewmen were never cross-trained to operate diesel engines. * U-boats machine gunned survivors in lifeboats "every now and then". * You can't hold your breath for six minutes straight. * You should Wave your hands heroically while drowning instead of shouting "throw me a f*king rope!" Last edited by Gizzmoe; 06-03-06 at 10:19 PM.*

06-03-06, 06:31 PM	#2
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: Must include: Of course you can launch two torpedoes simultaneously....trim tanks....who needs trim tanks? __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

06-03-06, 06:41 PM	#3
Ula Jolly Samurai Navy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 567 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	AHAHAWmygood goddess of laughter! :rotfl: Most of these I didn't even register when I watched the film. Also... When a submarine is engaged by a German destroyer, it is perfectly feasible for the crew of said submarine to lure the destroyer into range of Allied aircraft. __________________ I shall punish yee, landlubber! C'mere for spankings and popsicles!

06-03-06, 06:57 PM	#4
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	That reminds of one of my favorite (read awful) quotes from that movie: Wentz:"If we head for England, we're gonna go straight through the western approaches." Sailor:"He's right... I mean, thats Jerry's backyard." I wonder how many Germans who came under air attack would beg to differ? __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili-- Last edited by Torplexed; 06-03-06 at 07:00 PM.

06-03-06, 07:25 PM	#6
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	the worst thing about U571 is its just a load of Hollywood bllcks The enigma codes were not captured that way or by the US but by the Royal Navy from 2 different submarines U559 FateSunk 30 Oct, 1942 in the Mediterranean north-east of Port Said, in position 32.30N, 33.00E, by depth charges from the British destroyers HMS Pakenham, HMS Petard and HMS Hero and the British escort destroyers HMS Dulverton and HMS Hurworth, and a British Wellesley aircraft from RAF 47 Sqn. 7 dead and 38 survivors. The boat was boarded by 3 men who had swum over to the sinking wreck. They went into the boat and captured several vital secret documents which greatly helped (some say, enabled) to break the German Enigma code machine. 2 of the 3 drowned inside the boat while still handing out files. U110 FateCaptured on 9 May, 1941 in the North Atlantic south of Iceland by the destroyers HMS Bulldog, HMS Broadway and the British corvette HMS Aubretia. The boat was allowed to sink the day after to preserve the secret capture. 15 dead and 32 survivors. "The Secret Capture" U-110 met its end on May 9, 1941 when it was captured . This is what most people view as the most important capture of the entire war and it was so secret that even the crew of U-110 did not know of it! U-110, under the command of Kptlt. Fritz Julius Lemp, had been attacking a convoy along with U-201 (Oblt. Adalbert Schnee) when Lemp left his periscope up too long (probably to confirm a kill, he sank two ships on that day amounting to 7500 GRT) and the escort HMS Aubretia spotted it and rushed to the scene dropping depth charges. U-110 survived the first attacks but then HMS Bulldog and HMS Broadway came and joined in the hunt. U-110 was forced to surface and HMS Bulldog immediately went onto ramming course (its commander realized at the very last moment that a capture might come off and tried to avoid hitting U-110 which he almost did) which Lemp noticed and ordered "Abandon Ship". Lemp figured that since the boat was going to be rammed (and presumably sunk) its secrets were safe within it. Only when he was in the water did he realize that the boat was not sinking and attempted to swim back and prevent capture and that was the last seen of him. Many say he was shot in the water by a British sailor but that may not be at all true. The British made several journeys between U-110 and HMS Bulldog to collect whatever they could get their hands on inside the boat. This must have been a real treat as U-110 was abandoned in a hurry and being a IXB class she did not sink as rapidly as VIIC would likely have done. It is very likely that numerous U-boats were sunk using the material found inside U-110. The day after the boat was captured someone realized that the allies already had the most important part of U-110, namely the secret documents and Enigma machine and that the Germans might find out that the British had the boat soon and, assuming the worst, change all codes and cipher system. The boat thus "accidentally" sank when being towed to Britain. 15 men were killed in the action and 32 captured. Lemp himself did not survive as noted above. No mention of the USN in there then lol __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

06-03-06, 07:23 PM	#5
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	What i wondered, was where the hell were they were they thought they could lure that destroyer into allied air cover and "call in an air strike". And they way they were talking, you'd swear they thought they could lure said destroyer submerged.. allll that way.. Suuuuurreeeeee they could.

06-03-06, 07:31 PM	#7
Umfuld Captain Join Date: May 2006 Location: USA Posts: 503 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	It's on Bravo right now. __________________ Type VIIB = The Truth

06-04-06, 03:21 AM	#9
The_Blockade_Runner Sparky Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 156 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	U-571 is not that bad of a movie. Sure its not historically accurate, but its entertaining to watch. Who would want to watch a bunch of guys sail around all movie in a glorified pop can doing nothing. You can't use TC in the movies, so action is always happpening. Since they were in a sub they needed something to attack for the plot, so they threw in a german destroyer. __________________ U boat warfare, Product of German Engineering. German Engineering in da house

06-04-06, 03:48 AM	#10
Drebbel Dutch Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Almost at periscope death ! Posts: 1,665 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I agree. It is a fun action movie !!

06-12-06, 04:22 PM	#15
kholemann Gunner Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 98 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	Loving wife My wife got me the DVD of that movie cuz she knows I like that part of history. I watched it and almost vomited. I couldn't really say anything to her. I am confident that if I didn't know so much about the history of naval warfare in WWII that I would have really enjoyed the movie. So much is wrong with it, even fictionalized, I just couldn't ever watch it again unless inebreated. The most mind boggling thing was the German Destroyer out in the Atlantic. If Bon Jovi would have broke into song with the other guys doing backup, it would at least have made for a more entertaining (if not horried train-wrecking) of a movie.