Sub Launched Sams

madcap30 · 05-30-06, 01:51 AM

Hello all.
I was just wondering, why SCS made the Sub launched Stinger, so damn powerfull??? yesterday i was in a Multiplayer game , and managed to kill 4 Helo´s in a very short time, without having to Aim the Stinger at all. I basicly just pointed the thing into the sky, and launched a series of missiles, scoring the 4 kills.

So my question is, would it be possible to make the missile (much) less Accurate, and have a longer reload time. I have yet to see a person reload a stinger missile system, in under 1-2 minutes. in this game the 10 seconds is ridiculous.

Madcap.

Bellman · 05-30-06, 02:11 AM

Yep - a good point ! I have always felt that the Stinger implementation is crude and can honestly say
I never use it on the grounds of realism. However. in game (gamey) terms I see why Sonalysts put it there
to balance the potential overwheening power of the aircraft.

LuftWolf · 05-30-06, 02:14 AM

LWAMI tries to address many of the issues with the MANPAD.

We have done the follow to address the game balance issue:

1) The MANPAD seeker cone has been *drastically* reduced to about 3 degrees. This means you now have to aim the launcher at the target to hit it and won't get "close enough" pot shots anymore.

2) Flare effectiveness has been increased significantly.

3) The missiles have been given a small but significant chance of failure, especially for the SA-5.

4) AI Helos have MAD detectors that are very effective at picking up shallow targets in the Mod and will actually attack MAD targets rather than just buzz around them.

5) In the LWAMI4, the P-3 and the MH60 AI lookouts for the player Orion and MH60 will be able to visually detect submarines that are shallow.

All in all, we have taken the stategy of reducing the effectiveness of the weapons themselves to put them into more reasonable parameters and giving the submarine players more to think about when going deep to try to get a shot. Also, given the ability of submarines to hide from buoys and aircraft in LWAMI, mission designers should be able to have the submarines doing something other than fly fishing with a reasonable chance of surviving the scenario.

Bellman · 05-30-06, 02:31 AM

Very impressive work !

But I think I shall continue to ignore an unrealistic Sonalysts feature, however well it has been modded and compensated for !
Much more 'Doomy' than the UUV on steroids.

madcap30 · 05-30-06, 02:32 AM

okay that sounds good, but unfortunatly, im in a virtual fleet that dosent allow for any external mods. only the 1.03. But what you are saying does sound good, and i might have to get the peolpe to reevaluate on the mod thing

.

Any way thanks for the info.

Madcap

LuftWolf · 05-30-06, 02:34 AM

Most of the dives recorded at the GNSF have been LWAMI 3.xx dives.

The GNSF has given LWAMI a very warm reception, and my feeling is that players there are happy with the mod.

Cheers,
David

Molon Labe · 05-30-06, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Most of the dives recorded at the GNSF have been LWAMI 3.xx dives.

The GNSF has given LWAMI a very warm reception, and my feeling is that players there are happy with the mod.

Cheers,
David

Boo-yah!

Amizaur · 05-30-06, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madcap30

okay that sounds good, but unfortunatly, im in a virtual fleet that dosent allow for any external mods. only the 1.03.
Madcap

I think if you don't want to use whole mod (which is great anyway), but want to do something with MANPADs specifically, then you can easily make a very simple mod for your virtual fleet using only some features, for example MANPADs fix only on pure 1.03 game. You can use my fix for 3deg (or evev 2deg) seeker cone - this change alone makes very big difference - you can't just launch in general direction of the target and missile will find it (this was most annoying thing for me too!, now you have to first SEE your target, because then you have to AIM for it very carefully. Add to this my doctrine fix for missile trajectory, and some general changes like reducing missile efectiveness and increasing flare chance and you have your own custom mod - pure 1.03 game, only with MANPADs changed and some 300% closer to real thing than original

Molon Labe · 05-30-06, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amizaur

now you have to first SEE your target, because then you have to AIM for it very carefully.

You also usually have to lead the target a bit as well.

LuftWolf · 05-31-06, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

You also usually have to lead the target a bit as well.

I'm glad you're happy.

Cheers,
David

suBB · 06-01-06, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madcap30

okay that sounds good, but unfortunatly, im in a virtual fleet that dosent allow for any external mods. only the 1.03. But what you are saying does sound good, and i might have to get the peolpe to reevaluate on the mod thing

.

Any way thanks for the info.

Madcap

hummpf.. I'm not talking down to your virtual fleet(and i know what fleet it is and some high ranking officials there) but that doesn't sound right. To me that means 'if you wish to stay here with us, you must play THIS WAY' Also correct me if im wrong but your ROE states ONLY maps made by your fleet on servers HOSTED BY fleet members.

I've even heard from members there that they consider mods like LWAMI cheating! :rotfl

i still can't get over that one) and if caught with the mod installed you will be courtmarshalled(i guess thats your fleets means of punishment for not following rules

)

gimmie a break...

The whole deal sounds very one sided.

IF that is so, then what kind of message does it send to new players?

I think GNSF will do you and newcomers alike a far better service as it caters to all on various levels without all the political B.S. but thats just me talking.

yes that's right: Dynamic mission objective MP http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=92394

Molon Labe · 06-02-06, 12:13 AM

GNSF does require that the maps get official approval, which is a very important quality control feature. Keep in mind that there are some maps floating around with scripted detections and the like.

06-03-06, 11:46 AM

hi everybody...Good to be back
I have to add a little comment here. The SA N 8 behaviour is more realistic than the stinger's. You'll see it is somewhat harder to hit with the SA N 8 than with the stinger.

goldorak · 06-03-06, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

GNSF does require that the maps get official approval, which is a very important quality control feature. Keep in mind that there are some maps floating around with scripted detections and the like.

Are such maps present on subguru.com ?

LuftWolf · 06-03-06, 01:20 PM

No, he's refering to maps that users have edited after downloading.

05-30-06, 01:51 AM	#1
madcap30 Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Sub Launched Sams Hello all. I was just wondering, why SCS made the Sub launched Stinger, so damn powerfull??? yesterday i was in a Multiplayer game , and managed to kill 4 Helo´s in a very short time, without having to Aim the Stinger at all. I basicly just pointed the thing into the sky, and launched a series of missiles, scoring the 4 kills. So my question is, would it be possible to make the missile (much) less Accurate, and have a longer reload time. I have yet to see a person reload a stinger missile system, in under 1-2 minutes. in this game the 10 seconds is ridiculous. Madcap.

05-30-06, 02:11 AM	#2
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	Yep - a good point ! I have always felt that the Stinger implementation is crude and can honestly say I never use it on the grounds of realism. However. in game (gamey) terms I see why Sonalysts put it there to balance the potential overwheening power of the aircraft. __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity Last edited by Bellman; 05-30-06 at 03:03 AM.

05-30-06, 02:14 AM	#3
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	LWAMI tries to address many of the issues with the MANPAD. We have done the follow to address the game balance issue: 1) The MANPAD seeker cone has been drastically reduced to about 3 degrees. This means you now have to aim the launcher at the target to hit it and won't get "close enough" pot shots anymore. 2) Flare effectiveness has been increased significantly. 3) The missiles have been given a small but significant chance of failure, especially for the SA-5. 4) AI Helos have MAD detectors that are very effective at picking up shallow targets in the Mod and will actually attack MAD targets rather than just buzz around them. 5) In the LWAMI4, the P-3 and the MH60 AI lookouts for the player Orion and MH60 will be able to visually detect submarines that are shallow. All in all, we have taken the stategy of reducing the effectiveness of the weapons themselves to put them into more reasonable parameters and giving the submarine players more to think about when going deep to try to get a shot. Also, given the ability of submarines to hide from buoys and aircraft in LWAMI, mission designers should be able to have the submarines doing something other than fly fishing with a reasonable chance of surviving the scenario. __________________ LW

05-30-06, 02:31 AM	#4
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	Very impressive work ! But I think I shall continue to ignore an unrealistic Sonalysts feature, however well it has been modded and compensated for ! Much more 'Doomy' than the UUV on steroids. __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity Last edited by Bellman; 05-30-06 at 03:12 AM.

05-30-06, 02:34 AM	#6
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Most of the dives recorded at the GNSF have been LWAMI 3.xx dives. The GNSF has given LWAMI a very warm reception, and my feeling is that players there are happy with the mod. Cheers, David __________________ LW

05-30-06, 02:32 AM	#5
madcap30 Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	okay that sounds good, but unfortunatly, im in a virtual fleet that dosent allow for any external mods. only the 1.03. But what you are saying does sound good, and i might have to get the peolpe to reevaluate on the mod thing . Any way thanks for the info. Madcap

06-02-06, 12:13 AM	#12
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	GNSF does require that the maps get official approval, which is a very important quality control feature. Keep in mind that there are some maps floating around with scripted detections and the like. __________________

06-03-06, 11:46 AM	#13
Titigel Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	hi everybody...Good to be back I have to add a little comment here. The SA N 8 behaviour is more realistic than the stinger's. You'll see it is somewhat harder to hit with the SA N 8 than with the stinger.

06-03-06, 01:20 PM	#15
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	No, he's refering to maps that users have edited after downloading. __________________ LW