Okay, I'm stupid and confused!!!

robj250 · 05-25-06, 06:48 PM

Go ahead an call me what you want, but I have tried and tried to follow the instructions that was posted in "The Hunt" I think, which was very well written. But, I cannot understand how to plot an intercept of a convoy using the map tools. I do not have RUb1.45 'cause I didn't like it. I have a lot of trouble trying to figure out how to use the map tools provided in the Nav Map to plot an intercept. What I need is a sorta "vanilla" approach to the situation, like, what do I use first, where do I place the starting tool on and what do I do with it. I'm sorry guys, but I just cannot follow those instructions in "The Hunt" or whatever it was called. I have read it over and over, but nothing is sinking in so I am at a loss as to how to use the map tools. Can someone give me a "vanilla" step-by-step on what to use and how to use it and when to use it.

I would truly like to learn how to use these tools.

Thanks to everyone who has given me help in the past. It is greatly appreciate!!

GreyOctober · 05-25-06, 07:19 PM

Rob, start off easy dont make thing more complicated. Think of the tools as "helpers" nothing more. Ill give you a quick example: say you spot a ship bearing 010. Go to the map, select the line tool and draw a line from your position to the target on 010. Simple. You now have a line on the map at a given time where youve drawn it.
You figure out visually where the target is headed and change your course to intercept (no need to be accurate now (just point your subs nose well ahead of the target). After some time you measure the distance and note the bearing again. Lets say hes now bearing 340. You go to the map and draw a line again. If you connect the points which mark the contacts position with another line youll get his heading (assuming you got his range right). It should be natural to use. I like to think that there are no rules except mathematical ones. You make your own rules.

Suggestion: pick up the sigle mission "happy times" and experiment with the tools. the convoy is headed 090 and you start some 7km ahead of them a bit to their right. The third row of the convoy (3rd ship) has a passenger transport. Plot him and sink him, untill you feel comfy with the situation.

Cheers!

Umfuld · 05-25-06, 07:20 PM

Not sure what if any mods you're using. So I'll just tell you what I do. It may be the same as the other post, don't know.

By 'convoy' you must mean when you get a radio report and an icon appears on the Nav Map.
Take the ruler and draw a straight line though the icon (as in, through the rear of the boat through the front and straight ahead). As far as you need to go.
Now just head to that line, ahead of the convoy at top speed.

Some quick, no calculator needed math and you should be able to tell a good spot to aim on the convoys course that you will reach first. They move slow, so it's easy.

And that's it.

What?

robj250 · 05-25-06, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyOctober

Suggestion: pick up the sigle mission "happy times" and experiment with the tools. the convoy is headed 090 and you start some 7km ahead of them a bit to their right. The third row of the convoy (3rd ship) has a passenger transport. Plot him and sink him, untill you feel comfy with the situation.

Cheers!

where do I obtain this single mission?

squigian · 05-25-06, 07:48 PM

It's a single mission, included with the retail copy :P

CybrSlydr · 05-25-06, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyOctober

I like to think that there are no rules except mathematical ones.

Hence why you'll never see me use a manual TDC. I hate math.

robj250 · 05-25-06, 08:16 PM

Thanks, I didn't know. I just checked my SH3 files and yeppers, it's there.
Every since I started playing SH3, which I started at the beginning in 1939, I have always done my interceptions on paper and have been pretty lucky.
In my present mission, I did the same thing and then transferred it to Photoshop and plotted in the map, what I had calculated with pencil, paper and using a 10 piece math set. Here is what I come up with for my present interception:

I really am not sure if this planned intercept is going to work now because on the way, I ran into two single merchants, so I had to take time out to sink them, and then I got spotted by aircraft on two separate occassions that were droppings DCs so I had to crash drive to 50 metres, so that took more time out of my planned intercept route. So, I am just sitting waiting where I think the convoy will appear. I'm not sure whether I missed them or not.
Let's hope I am still in time. I had calculated that I would intercept them at roughly 2010. It is now 1620.
Thanks. I will try a little plotting on 'Happy Times' to see how I do.

CybrSlydr · 05-25-06, 08:22 PM

Well, from what little I remember of my geometry, if you were using the Pythagorean therom, one of those needs to be a right angle - most of the time it's the convoy line and the distance between you and the convoy (as it appears in your drawing).

That might be why your calculations are off.

Heibges · 05-25-06, 08:24 PM

Hi Rob,

Really, because of the GPS uboat map marking, is makes it a little more realistic if you just guestimate. Realistic is probably not the word I'm looking for. Let's just say more realistic in some respects, less realistic in others.

If they are moving 6kts, and you are moving 17kts, you know that you can move about three times the distance in the same amount of time, or the same distance in 1/3 of the time.

Plan your dogleg approach course appropriately.

CybrSlydr · 05-25-06, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heibges

Hi Rob,

Really, because of the GPS uboat map marking, is makes it a little more realistic if you just guestimate.

I only eyeball intercepts on my map - no need to do all that fancy, time-consuming and tedious math crap.

Works like a charm.

robj250 · 05-25-06, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CybrSlydr

Well, from what little I remember of my geometry, if you were using the Pythagorean therom, one of those needs to be a right angle - most of the time it's the convoy line and the distance between you and the convoy (as it appears in your drawing).

That might be why your calculations are off.

I'll have to let you know how it works out tomorrow as I am very, very tired and need some rest.

Keelbuster · 05-25-06, 10:15 PM

Also - those are far distances to try to intercept from. I usually try to catch a radio report close by. Over very long distances your quarry will change course and speed and you'll lose him. I find guestimating just fine for interception. I use the hydrophone occasionally if I think i've overshot.

Kb

Heibges · 05-25-06, 10:23 PM

If you followed the course you have plotted at Full Speed or Flank Speed until you intersected the convoy's course, then turned towards the convoy so in your estimation the convoy was on bearing 000Â°, you would intercept that convoy, provided that it did not change course.

Dantenoc · 05-26-06, 04:20 AM

Try reading this post:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=49376

It also has links to other useful post, particularly the one about "course to intercept method revised" (3rd one in the list)should interest you.

andy_311 · 05-26-06, 05:07 AM

That's good but then **** happen's if the convoy changes course and speed or just doesn't spawn where it suppose to.

05-25-06, 06:48 PM	#1
robj250 Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Port Hardy, BC, Canada 75 yo with M.S. & C.O.P.D. & heart problems Posts: 1,930 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Okay, I'm stupid and confused!!! Go ahead an call me what you want, but I have tried and tried to follow the instructions that was posted in "The Hunt" I think, which was very well written. But, I cannot understand how to plot an intercept of a convoy using the map tools. I do not have RUb1.45 'cause I didn't like it. I have a lot of trouble trying to figure out how to use the map tools provided in the Nav Map to plot an intercept. What I need is a sorta "vanilla" approach to the situation, like, what do I use first, where do I place the starting tool on and what do I do with it. I'm sorry guys, but I just cannot follow those instructions in "The Hunt" or whatever it was called. I have read it over and over, but nothing is sinking in so I am at a loss as to how to use the map tools. Can someone give me a "vanilla" step-by-step on what to use and how to use it and when to use it. I would truly like to learn how to use these tools. Thanks to everyone who has given me help in the past. It is greatly appreciate!!

05-25-06, 07:19 PM	#2
GreyOctober Sonar Guy Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 394 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Rob, start off easy dont make thing more complicated. Think of the tools as "helpers" nothing more. Ill give you a quick example: say you spot a ship bearing 010. Go to the map, select the line tool and draw a line from your position to the target on 010. Simple. You now have a line on the map at a given time where youve drawn it. You figure out visually where the target is headed and change your course to intercept (no need to be accurate now (just point your subs nose well ahead of the target). After some time you measure the distance and note the bearing again. Lets say hes now bearing 340. You go to the map and draw a line again. If you connect the points which mark the contacts position with another line youll get his heading (assuming you got his range right). It should be natural to use. I like to think that there are no rules except mathematical ones. You make your own rules. Suggestion: pick up the sigle mission "happy times" and experiment with the tools. the convoy is headed 090 and you start some 7km ahead of them a bit to their right. The third row of the convoy (3rd ship) has a passenger transport. Plot him and sink him, untill you feel comfy with the situation. Cheers! __________________

05-25-06, 07:20 PM	#3
Umfuld Captain Join Date: May 2006 Location: USA Posts: 503 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Not sure what if any mods you're using. So I'll just tell you what I do. It may be the same as the other post, don't know. By 'convoy' you must mean when you get a radio report and an icon appears on the Nav Map. Take the ruler and draw a straight line though the icon (as in, through the rear of the boat through the front and straight ahead). As far as you need to go. Now just head to that line, ahead of the convoy at top speed. Some quick, no calculator needed math and you should be able to tell a good spot to aim on the convoys course that you will reach first. They move slow, so it's easy. And that's it. What? __________________ Type VIIB = The Truth

05-25-06, 08:24 PM	#9
Heibges Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,633 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Hi Rob, Really, because of the GPS uboat map marking, is makes it a little more realistic if you just guestimate. Realistic is probably not the word I'm looking for. Let's just say more realistic in some respects, less realistic in others. If they are moving 6kts, and you are moving 17kts, you know that you can move about three times the distance in the same amount of time, or the same distance in 1/3 of the time. Plan your dogleg approach course appropriately. __________________ U.Kdt.Hdb B. I. 28) This possibility of using the hydrophone to help in detecting surface ships should, however, be restricted to those cases where the submarine is unavoidably compelled to stay below the surface. http://www.hackworth.com/

05-25-06, 10:15 PM	#12
Keelbuster Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: BA 72 Posts: 1,092 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Also - those are far distances to try to intercept from. I usually try to catch a radio report close by. Over very long distances your quarry will change course and speed and you'll lose him. I find guestimating just fine for interception. I use the hydrophone occasionally if I think i've overshot. Kb __________________

05-25-06, 07:48 PM	#5
squigian Helmsman Join Date: May 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 107 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It's a single mission, included with the retail copy :P

05-25-06, 08:16 PM	#7
robj250 Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Port Hardy, BC, Canada 75 yo with M.S. & C.O.P.D. & heart problems Posts: 1,930 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Thanks, I didn't know. I just checked my SH3 files and yeppers, it's there. Every since I started playing SH3, which I started at the beginning in 1939, I have always done my interceptions on paper and have been pretty lucky. In my present mission, I did the same thing and then transferred it to Photoshop and plotted in the map, what I had calculated with pencil, paper and using a 10 piece math set. Here is what I come up with for my present interception: I really am not sure if this planned intercept is going to work now because on the way, I ran into two single merchants, so I had to take time out to sink them, and then I got spotted by aircraft on two separate occassions that were droppings DCs so I had to crash drive to 50 metres, so that took more time out of my planned intercept route. So, I am just sitting waiting where I think the convoy will appear. I'm not sure whether I missed them or not. Let's hope I am still in time. I had calculated that I would intercept them at roughly 2010. It is now 1620. Thanks. I will try a little plotting on 'Happy Times' to see how I do.

05-25-06, 08:22 PM	#8
CybrSlydr Lieutenant Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Beverly, OH Posts: 263 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Well, from what little I remember of my geometry, if you were using the Pythagorean therom, one of those needs to be a right angle - most of the time it's the convoy line and the distance between you and the convoy (as it appears in your drawing). That might be why your calculations are off.

05-25-06, 10:23 PM	#13
Heibges Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,633 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	If you followed the course you have plotted at Full Speed or Flank Speed until you intersected the convoy's course, then turned towards the convoy so in your estimation the convoy was on bearing 000Â°, you would intercept that convoy, provided that it did not change course. __________________ U.Kdt.Hdb B. I. 28) This possibility of using the hydrophone to help in detecting surface ships should, however, be restricted to those cases where the submarine is unavoidably compelled to stay below the surface. http://www.hackworth.com/

05-26-06, 04:20 AM	#14
Dantenoc Captain Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ensenada, B.C., Mexico Posts: 504 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Try reading this post: http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=49376 It also has links to other useful post, particularly the one about "course to intercept method revised" (3rd one in the list)should interest you.

05-26-06, 05:07 AM	#15
andy_311 The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oldham, Lancs,England Posts: 1,312 Downloads: 82 Uploads: 0	That's good but then **** happen's if the convoy changes course and speed or just doesn't spawn where it suppose to.