Islam teachings at US universities

Skybird · 05-22-06, 04:14 PM

I would like to know if there is anyone here who has been teaching or learning in such courses and can comment on the article.

Fitzgerald: Scholarship and sensitivity
Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald discusses the state of scholarship about Islam and jihad in American universities today:

Asked about his experience after a year of teaching in America, a famous Russian scholar of my acquaintance said: "A strange place. In America, the best Russian scholars are spread out at very small schools. They are not in the big famous schools." I leave it to others to judge the accuracy of that remark, or its possible applicability to other fields.
Particularly to the field of Middle East Studies. Of course, it is well known that some professors in American universities regularly intimidate, mock, and otherwise make life most unpleasant for their students who do not accept their propaganda. Several of them teach in the Middle Eastern and Asian Languages Program (MEALAC). There are numerous complaints about their behavior: start by googling "George Saliba" and "Hamid Dabahi" or "Joseph Massad". Don't think you can conceivably take a course on Islam, or anything to do with Muslim history, and dare to raise in class or anywhere else, such subjects as the dhimmi, and Muslim subjugation of non-Muslims. Nor should you show too great a knowledge of certain events in the life of Muhammad, or of the sayings of Muhammad. Best to stick to the Qur'an; better still, to the Michael Sells bowdlerized version, "Approaching the Qur'an: The Lyrical Suras."

Students who nonetheless enroll in these courses, should take careful note of what is said and how they themselves are treated -- especially when it comes to papers and exams.
One example: a student who graduated from in 2003 from a celebrated American university, and who had taken the course on Islam, reports that he was asked, on the final examination, to define the "Miraj." He answered, correctly, that the Miraj is the Night Journey of Muhammad, one which Muslims believe took place from a site referred to in the Qur'an as al-masjid al-aksa -- the furthest mosque -- and that on his fabulous winged steed, Al-Buraq, Muhammad within the space of 24 hours ascended all the way into the sky as far as the Seventh Heaven, and then returned to the same spot.

The grader (a Muslim) gave him a failing grade for that answer, and a C overall. The grader wrote on the margin: "Why do you say that Muslims "believe" this? And you didn't tell us that Jerusalem was the site of the Farthest Mosque. Why not?"

Now that blue book has been preserved, xeroxed, and some day it may come back to haunt that particular grader.

But the point here is that thought-control and intimidation are rampant. Yet the only professors who come close to being disciplined are the likes of Indrek Wichman, who made the mistake of sending an email critical of Islam in the heat of anger. Wichman was not intimidating students. He was not forcing them to study a subject and to report on it AS IF the student fully accepted the received Muslim version of events. He was expressing an opinion that was both rational and amply justified.

And if it was amply justified before, how much more justified is the opinion he expressed now that we have seen the hysterical and bullying and sinister reaction of local Muslims to it. Muslim students even demanded that he undergo â€œsensitivity training." "Sensitivity training" about what? Was Professor Wichman not entitled to express his opinion? Should he be "trained" in a Re-education Camp, like the kind set up by Communist regimes, such as that of North Vietnam for the benefit of insufficiently-enthusiastic South Vietnamese?

Anyone in the Administration of that college who did not stand firmly behind Wichman deserves to be discharged. Alumni, take note.

As for the whole sinister idea about this enforced "sensitivity training" -- one has to ask, what should one say about those who are raised up to hate Infidels? See Qurâ€™an 9.29, see all of Sura 9, see a hundred passages in the Qur'an, see several hundred of the isnadically "authentic" Hadith. Should one say nothing at all about the aggressive demands by Muslims in the West to change the laws, customs, manners, and understandings of non-Musliims, in this country which possesses a political and social order based on the Constitution, a Constitution which in every important respect is flatly contradicted by the Shari'a or Holy Law of Islam?

Professor Wichman and others like him have nothing to apologize for. Their colleagues should rally round them. And so should the Administration of their colleges. No "sensitivity training" is called for, save perhaps for those Muslim students who have a hard time grasping the nature of free speech -- but should start getting the hang of it, and accepting it, and all the other freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and especially by the First Amendment.

And anyone else who fails to understand sufficiently those rights has no business running a university.

Ducimus · 05-22-06, 05:21 PM

Im gonna go out on a limb and hazzard a guess that Islamic teachings of any sort are not heard in public American universities or colleges on any offical capacity.

Its a religion. If our own home grown bible thumping jesus freaks can't get the agenda on the cirruclum, i highly doubt Mohammad Doe is going to get his pshyco-babble on the cirriculum either.

As religions go, Colleges and universties can identify them and basic general information, but i dont think they can go into any signfiicant detail about them other then in a historical context.

Of course im probably talking out of my ass too.

The Avon Lady · 05-23-06, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Im gonna go out on a limb and hazzard a guess that Islamic teachings of any sort are not heard in public American universities or colleges on any offical capacity.

I have no idea how to easily distinguish public from private universities but fact is that there are numerous Islamic chairs and ciricullums throughout numerous US universities.

But why wait till college?!

The Avon Lady · 05-23-06, 01:48 AM

I see that SkyBird has become a big JW fan. Some more articles:

Saudi Prince Gives Millions to Harvard and Georgetown to spread Islam.

And this is just an example of many such instances. Check where money is coming from in places like the University of Michigan and Columbia.

"..... for bribery blinds the eyes of the wise and perverts the words of the just." - D'varim (Deuteronomy) 16:19

scandium · 05-23-06, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I see that SkyBird has become a big JW fan. Some more articles:

Saudi Prince Gives Millions to Harvard and Georgetown to spread Islam.

And this is just an example of many such instances. Check where money is coming from in places like the University of Michigan and Columbia.

"..... for bribery blinds the eyes of the wise and perverts the words of the just." - D'varim (Deuteronomy) 16:19

Slightly off-topic, but you have to love the so-called "liberal media":

But a federal judge appointed by President Clinton told them in so many words to get over it, that the state was merely teaching kids about another "culture."

So the parents appealed. Unfortunately, the most left-wing court in the land got their case. The 9th Circuit, which previously ruled in favor of an atheist who filed suit against the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, upheld the lower court ruling.

I have to wonder a bit when a news article goes out of its way to display this kind of bias if there's more to the story or if its much ado about nothing.

The Avon Lady · 05-23-06, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I see that SkyBird has become a big JW fan. Some more articles:

Saudi Prince Gives Millions to Harvard and Georgetown to spread Islam.

And this is just an example of many such instances. Check where money is coming from in places like the University of Michigan and Columbia.

"..... for bribery blinds the eyes of the wise and perverts the words of the just." - D'varim (Deuteronomy) 16:19

Slightly off-topic, but you have to love the so-called "liberal media":

But a federal judge appointed by President Clinton told them in so many words to get over it, that the state was merely teaching kids about another "culture."

So the parents appealed. Unfortunately, the most left-wing court in the land got their case. The 9th Circuit, which previously ruled in favor of an atheist who filed suit against the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, upheld the lower court ruling.

I have to wonder a bit when a news article goes out of its way to display this kind of bias if there's more to the story or if its much ado about nothing.

This is more an editorial than a news article. If you'll look at the linked article, it's under "Issues & Insights" - not "National News".

And yes, the writer does have an opinion. So do we all.

The Avon Lady · 05-23-06, 04:43 AM

Actually, the California case started back to 2002. Daniel Pipes commented about it then in his article 'Become a Muslim warrior'.

The recent California 9th Circuit court ruling allowing this to continue occured this past November: Court clears school of pushing religion with lesson on Islam.

And the beat goes on:

Asalam aleikum Seattle!

EDIT: An older article on the California case, expanding the issue in general and in detail and containing many links, can be found here: Look who's teaching Johnny about Islam - Saudi-funded Islamic activists have final say in shaping public-school lessons on religions. It's written by Paul Sperry, author of the book Infiltration : How Muslim Spies and Subversives Have Penetrated Washington.

Skybird · 05-23-06, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I see that SkyBird has become a big JW fan.

Well, I researched a bit on Robert Spencer and his reputation, and especially asked a prof at university for "vergleichende Religionswissenschaften" that I know, and my former boss, news editor with a special knowledge on Islam. I ended up with the conclusion that Mr. Spencer holds a reputation and a competence that must be respected. and meanwhile, I got allergic against Islam anyway. germany's acceptance towards it clearly has climbed to the level of pure absurdity and massive forging of history. And it ain't never enough PC and love for Islam, our own "leaders" are leading and pushing us to it like sheep are led to the slaughtery. Zum Kotzen. Sometimes i wonder if this place is even worth anymore to stand up for it and trying to defend it.

Looking out of the window: rain, clouds, grey and dark. Fits well.

I want to become minstre for education. Under my rule every class at school would make one obligatory one week trip to central and east of Anatolia. that would work wonder and delete any romantic illusions about the compatability of turkish culture in special and Islam in general in record time - guaranteed.

Even the much liked fast-food "DÃ¶ner" has not been invented in Turkey, but in Berlin, 30 years ago.

The Avon Lady · 05-23-06, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Looking out of the window: rain, clouds, grey and dark. Fits well.

Put on a happy face.

(Read the comments at the bottom, too)

Skybird · 05-23-06, 07:03 AM

I do not fear a fight, if I see it for a reason of value. I also do not fear for myself when loosing such fight, I have neither children nor wife. I even maybe, eventually could accept that what I loose falls to the winner, one can fight against someone, sometimes, but nevertheless respect him.

But that the canon of freedoms and values, the culture that i know, although already near it's sunset, will fall to something as stupid and inferior and primitive as Islam - that is definetly more than I can bear. It is like evolution backwards. I will never arrange my mind with that. To do so I consider to be disgraceful.

I often even wonder if even a nuclear terror strike with hundreds of thousands of dead would make europeans wake up. I would bet my money on that instead they will hold themselves responsible: that they triggered this violance by not being tolerant and integrative enough...

I remember such an interview with a Green politician. He asked if we really need to witness a nuclear bomb exploding in Paris or Frankfurt before we understand that we must do more for the inegration of Islam into our educational system, our society, our legislative.

Couldn't we just shoot down such stupid fools on the basis of claiming our right for self-defense? I mean they are guaranteed being free of any brain and reason, so what is there that could get damaged?

TLAM Strike · 05-23-06, 03:56 PM

Don't know if this has been posted already but I wonder if they will be teaching from Saudi textbooks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051901769.html

Ducimus · 05-23-06, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Im gonna go out on a limb and hazzard a guess that Islamic teachings of any sort are not heard in public American universities or colleges on any offical capacity.

I have no idea how to easily distinguish public from private universities but fact is that there are numerous Islamic chairs and ciricullums throughout numerous US universities.

But why wait till college?!

Thats why i said PUBLIC.

We have ooodles and oodles of private schools in our country. I probably woudlnt be embellishing much by saying every denomination of christiantly most certainly has a number of private universities and colleges here.

Islam i have no idea. Ive seen a mosque ONCE, and it was like.. waaay in the back of some surburbia. People of a given nationalality tend to lump together so you can go your whole life without seeing a mosque here until you stumble into a community of muslims.

05-22-06, 04:14 PM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,611 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Islam teachings at US universities I would like to know if there is anyone here who has been teaching or learning in such courses and can comment on the article. Fitzgerald: Scholarship and sensitivity Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald discusses the state of scholarship about Islam and jihad in American universities today: Asked about his experience after a year of teaching in America, a famous Russian scholar of my acquaintance said: "A strange place. In America, the best Russian scholars are spread out at very small schools. They are not in the big famous schools." I leave it to others to judge the accuracy of that remark, or its possible applicability to other fields. Particularly to the field of Middle East Studies. Of course, it is well known that some professors in American universities regularly intimidate, mock, and otherwise make life most unpleasant for their students who do not accept their propaganda. Several of them teach in the Middle Eastern and Asian Languages Program (MEALAC). There are numerous complaints about their behavior: start by googling "George Saliba" and "Hamid Dabahi" or "Joseph Massad". Don't think you can conceivably take a course on Islam, or anything to do with Muslim history, and dare to raise in class or anywhere else, such subjects as the dhimmi, and Muslim subjugation of non-Muslims. Nor should you show too great a knowledge of certain events in the life of Muhammad, or of the sayings of Muhammad. Best to stick to the Qur'an; better still, to the Michael Sells bowdlerized version, "Approaching the Qur'an: The Lyrical Suras." Students who nonetheless enroll in these courses, should take careful note of what is said and how they themselves are treated -- especially when it comes to papers and exams. One example: a student who graduated from in 2003 from a celebrated American university, and who had taken the course on Islam, reports that he was asked, on the final examination, to define the "Miraj." He answered, correctly, that the Miraj is the Night Journey of Muhammad, one which Muslims believe took place from a site referred to in the Qur'an as al-masjid al-aksa -- the furthest mosque -- and that on his fabulous winged steed, Al-Buraq, Muhammad within the space of 24 hours ascended all the way into the sky as far as the Seventh Heaven, and then returned to the same spot. The grader (a Muslim) gave him a failing grade for that answer, and a C overall. The grader wrote on the margin: "Why do you say that Muslims "believe" this? And you didn't tell us that Jerusalem was the site of the Farthest Mosque. Why not?" Now that blue book has been preserved, xeroxed, and some day it may come back to haunt that particular grader. But the point here is that thought-control and intimidation are rampant. Yet the only professors who come close to being disciplined are the likes of Indrek Wichman, who made the mistake of sending an email critical of Islam in the heat of anger. Wichman was not intimidating students. He was not forcing them to study a subject and to report on it AS IF the student fully accepted the received Muslim version of events. He was expressing an opinion that was both rational and amply justified. And if it was amply justified before, how much more justified is the opinion he expressed now that we have seen the hysterical and bullying and sinister reaction of local Muslims to it. Muslim students even demanded that he undergo â€œsensitivity training." "Sensitivity training" about what? Was Professor Wichman not entitled to express his opinion? Should he be "trained" in a Re-education Camp, like the kind set up by Communist regimes, such as that of North Vietnam for the benefit of insufficiently-enthusiastic South Vietnamese? Anyone in the Administration of that college who did not stand firmly behind Wichman deserves to be discharged. Alumni, take note. As for the whole sinister idea about this enforced "sensitivity training" -- one has to ask, what should one say about those who are raised up to hate Infidels? See Qurâ€™an 9.29, see all of Sura 9, see a hundred passages in the Qur'an, see several hundred of the isnadically "authentic" Hadith. Should one say nothing at all about the aggressive demands by Muslims in the West to change the laws, customs, manners, and understandings of non-Musliims, in this country which possesses a political and social order based on the Constitution, a Constitution which in every important respect is flatly contradicted by the Shari'a or Holy Law of Islam? Professor Wichman and others like him have nothing to apologize for. Their colleagues should rally round them. And so should the Administration of their colleges. No "sensitivity training" is called for, save perhaps for those Muslim students who have a hard time grasping the nature of free speech -- but should start getting the hang of it, and accepting it, and all the other freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and especially by the First Amendment. And anyone else who fails to understand sufficiently those rights has no business running a university. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-23-06, 01:48 AM	#4
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I see that SkyBird has become a big JW fan. Some more articles: Saudi Prince Gives Millions to Harvard and Georgetown to spread Islam. And this is just an example of many such instances. Check where money is coming from in places like the University of Michigan and Columbia. "..... for bribery blinds the eyes of the wise and perverts the words of the just." - D'varim (Deuteronomy) 16:19 __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

05-23-06, 04:43 AM	#7
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Actually, the California case started back to 2002. Daniel Pipes commented about it then in his article 'Become a Muslim warrior'. The recent California 9th Circuit court ruling allowing this to continue occured this past November: Court clears school of pushing religion with lesson on Islam. And the beat goes on: Asalam aleikum Seattle! EDIT: An older article on the California case, expanding the issue in general and in detail and containing many links, can be found here: Look who's teaching Johnny about Islam - Saudi-funded Islamic activists have final say in shaping public-school lessons on religions. It's written by Paul Sperry, author of the book Infiltration : How Muslim Spies and Subversives Have Penetrated Washington. __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

05-23-06, 07:03 AM	#10
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,611 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I do not fear a fight, if I see it for a reason of value. I also do not fear for myself when loosing such fight, I have neither children nor wife. I even maybe, eventually could accept that what I loose falls to the winner, one can fight against someone, sometimes, but nevertheless respect him. But that the canon of freedoms and values, the culture that i know, although already near it's sunset, will fall to something as stupid and inferior and primitive as Islam - that is definetly more than I can bear. It is like evolution backwards. I will never arrange my mind with that. To do so I consider to be disgraceful. I often even wonder if even a nuclear terror strike with hundreds of thousands of dead would make europeans wake up. I would bet my money on that instead they will hold themselves responsible: that they triggered this violance by not being tolerant and integrative enough... I remember such an interview with a Green politician. He asked if we really need to witness a nuclear bomb exploding in Paris or Frankfurt before we understand that we must do more for the inegration of Islam into our educational system, our society, our legislative. Couldn't we just shoot down such stupid fools on the basis of claiming our right for self-defense? I mean they are guaranteed being free of any brain and reason, so what is there that could get damaged? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-23-06, 03:56 PM	#11
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Don't know if this has been posted already but I wonder if they will be teaching from Saudi textbooks. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051901769.html __________________

05-22-06, 05:21 PM	#2
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Im gonna go out on a limb and hazzard a guess that Islamic teachings of any sort are not heard in public American universities or colleges on any offical capacity. Its a religion. If our own home grown bible thumping jesus freaks can't get the agenda on the cirruclum, i highly doubt Mohammad Doe is going to get his pshyco-babble on the cirriculum either. As religions go, Colleges and universties can identify them and basic general information, but i dont think they can go into any signfiicant detail about them other then in a historical context. Of course im probably talking out of my ass too.