Radar, What Is It Good For?

[Niemöller]

This may have been answered long long ago, but when I searched the forum, I couldn't find anything on point.

I'm a newb to SH3. I'm on my 34th patrol and am sailing in June '44 based in L'Orient (Don't ask what my realism level is--it's low. What can I say. . . I like to point, shoot, and blow ships up.)

What are the practical uses of Radar in SH3? I've already looked at wiki, for those who will tell me to RTFM. I've used radar during fog and stormy weather in order to get a fix on merchants and warships. But can I use radar for targeting without getting a visual sight of the enemy unit? I'd rather not plow through a thunderstorm, locate a C2, zero in on it with radar, and approach to 350m before I am able to launch a torp. Is there any way to fire and lock in on a target with radar without having to see the target visually? And I guess I can only use Radar when surfaced, correct? I'm real paranoid about using Radar anyway because it seems like a beacon advertising my position to the enemy and letting any DDs nearby get a fix on me.

Besides targeting, are there any other clever uses for Radar?

[tycho102]

Mainly, it serves like the light on a bug-zapper. You turn on your radar, wait for the planes to start circling, then zap them with the flak.

The best way to use your radar is sporatically. Turn it on for a few sweeps, then turn it back off. You need to use it especially in heavy weather, but you should also be using your hydrophones. Dive and listen every 3-4 hours, then surface and sweep twice every 30 minutes or so. You shouldn't be using your radar for attack approaches. It's only for searching, or it'll get you killed right quick.

And if you are intercepting a known convoy, then you shouldn't be using it at all. Those escorts will charge right out to meet you if you flip on your radar; use your hydrophones and plotting skills, instead.

[Dowly]

Well, you can detect enemies outside of your visual ranger without diving to make a hydrophone check.

In the later years of the war, the radar is useless because:
a) You are submerged most of the time
b) Allied radar detectors can pick you up

Hope this helps.

[tbarak]

It only works on the surface too. I find it's good in the early part of the war in thick fog since you can remain surfaced and get a fix on the target without submerging. Still it's field of view is tiny and using the radar is clunky. After 13 patrols I finally figured out how to use it manually and I got pretty excited once I saw that first blip. Still letting the radar op do his job and watching the map for those grey silhouettes works like a charm in thick fog.

[VonHelsching]

Originally Posted by Niemöller

Besides targeting, are there any other clever uses for Radar?

No, but you're not supposed to know that in 1939-1945. You're supposed to attract attention and die. Sad but true.

I'm using it anyway.

[Scorpius]

I have never actually used it. Never need to. Maybe i will give it a try on this career. Come to think of it, i have never used it so i will have to learn how it is spose to work.

Does it work like the hydrophones? You turn the wheel to locate contacts? Or is it like real radar in DC where you have a circular window with a beam sweeping in a circle?

[tbarak]

I think you have two sweep modes, auto and manual, and yes you can move the wheel around. Good luck seeing the blip on the screen - it seems small and real intermittent. If you blink you'll miss it, its that fast. It's a pretty tight beam. Better to watch the numeric readout since its easier to see. Unless of course you can keep the target within the 10 - 15 degree beam which I've found to be pretty hard.

[irish1958]

With proper housing you can warm up a muffin.
irish1958

[Captain Affenschwanz]

I'm on my 25th patrol in March of 1944 and never bothered to have a radar installed on any my boats. I believe the negatives far outweigh the postives on this issue... Radar is a magnet for planes, warships and death.

I hunt by sound.

[Scorpius]

Anyone care to post images of the radar?

[Manock]

Well - its 1943 & have the 360 degree radar, and I use it mostly defensively when Im in a hurry to get to my hunting grounds by traveling surfaced at night. It will pick up planes at around the 15,000 meter or 5nm giving me time to submerge.

Plus so far, unescorted merchants dont seem to have radar detectors yet so I use it to walk up to merchants, and sink them. Hurts my hand though.

About radar. Radar detecting works on the X2 principle. Since a radar beam has to have the strength to bounce off a target, & return to the transmitter. Radar strength is x2 its range. So if your radar unit has a range as here of 15k meters, its detectability is x2 or 30km or 10nms. Which really isnt all that much to worry about as far as concerning yourself as being a BEACON SHOUTING out your location.

Destroyers all ready know your out there. Giving them 10 mile notice isnt that great of a vulnerability. Plus once they get close enough at around 4500meters you can just dive out of there.

Plus their undetectable centrimetric radar has long since found your boat outside your meager units detection.

SO WHAT IM SAYING IS - You might as well use it.

Manock

[Keelbuster]

Originally Posted by Manock

Well - its 1943 & have the 360 degree radar, and I use it mostly defensively when Im in a hurry to get to my hunting grounds by traveling surfaced at night. It will pick up planes at around the 15,000 meter or 5nm giving me time to submerge.

Plus so far, unescorted merchants dont seem to have radar detectors yet so I use it to walk up to merchants, and sink them. Hurts my hand though.

About radar. Radar detecting works on the X2 principle. Since a radar beam has to have the strength to bounce off a target, & return to the transmitter. Radar strength is x2 its range. So if your radar unit has a range as here of 15k meters, its detectability is x2 or 30km or 10nms. Which really isnt all that much to worry about as far as concerning yourself as being a BEACON SHOUTING out your location.

Destroyers all ready know your out there. Giving them 10 mile notice isnt that great of a vulnerability. Plus once they get close enough at around 4500meters you can just dive out of there.

Plus their undetectable centrimetric radar has long since found your boat outside your meager units detection.

SO WHAT IM SAYING IS - You might as well use it.

Manock

That's some good, sober talk. Does the crew pick up aircraft contacts on radar and break time compression?

Kb

[tycho102]

Originally Posted by irish1958

With proper housing you can warm up a muffin.
irish1958

You are correct, even without the "proper housing". I don't know any specifics of German radar in mid-1940's, but I would guess 5kw. 5 kilowatts of power output (without a fluid-cooled magnetron) is about the limit. Since the rotating antennas absolutely couldn't have put that out on later versions, it probably dropped to 1kw. Put it on a long dowl rod, and you could cook a weenie in 10 minutes. It'd warm the muffin, but I'd bet the crew would have appreciated meat more than bread.

And the detectability range is far greater than 2x, even with radio-tubes. Closer to 6x, but the game's physics borders are 20km.

[BettingUrlife]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Well, you can detect enemies outside of your visual ranger without diving to make a hydrophone check.

In the later years of the war, the radar is useless because:
a) You are submerged most of the time
b) Allied radar detectors can pick you up

Hope this helps.

In the game do Allied radar detectors really work though? I was in a light fog at night once , shadowing a convoy and flicked it on looking for a blip. Got the blip and adjusted course, no escort came to track me down. Okay, put radar on continuously, still no escorts. I guess the easy work around would be to play as it would be done historically and keep it turn off. But if the programmers didn't programme it correctly ...

Anyway, anyone else found that Allies don't detect radar very well?

[Manock]

Radar detectability is NOT X6 is signal strength. It is X2. But since this is a hobby, & Im not willing to pull out the formulas I wont be commenting on this any further.

But I like the 20km detection balance if thats correct. Arial detection would be greatest at the above stated 30k but much less at sea level, and sea wave turbulence would always be altering it, and I would put it at about 9k or 10.

So if your saying the simulation model uses 20k in all detection environments, I suppose this is a balanced simple approach to the issue.