Crash Dive Blues!

Der Teddy Bar · 05-07-06, 01:10 AM

Guys,
In beta testing of the NYGM U-boat Mod Stiebler has noted an intermittent issue where he would experience difficulty maintain depth at 1/3 ahead. Try as I might I could replicate this issue.

That is, until Observer found the answerâ€¦ an Interrupted CRASH DIVE.

Let me start by saying that the interrupted crash dive behaviour is a evident in a vanilla install of SHIII 1.4b, this â€˜featureâ€™ is brought to the fore by the NYGM U-Boat Mod.

If you order a crash dive and before the u-boat reaches the crash dive depth (normally about 70 metres) you order the u-boat to another depth (higher or lower) then what happens is that the u-boat sits down by the stern at an angle of about 10 degree angle!!! The only way to get the u-boat back onto an even keel is then to order another crash dive and of course let it complete.

Due to the abundance of positive buoyancy that allows the U-Boat to hover like a Humming Bird this â€˜featureâ€™ was not seen by the player. It would have however made the u-boat sink or sink more severely when the stern of the u-boat was flooding but this is something that the player would have expected and hard to tell the difference between flooding occurances.

So if you order a crash dive ensure that you let the u-boat go the full distance, you can however change speed & direction without issue.

Salvadoreno · 05-07-06, 02:42 AM

i dont get it

Myxale · 05-07-06, 03:31 AM

Wow, thats a pretty nifty fact there Teddy.
It's just, i can't count the times i interupted my crash dives.
I'm kind of an English Channel fanatic and there's no way to go down to the whole CD depth.

Can't belive the Vanilla is that poor.
But nevertheless, i look foward toe the cool things you guys come up with.

Mr.Werner · 05-07-06, 03:44 AM

crash dive and let it go the full lenght?? what are you talking about. I crash dive all the time and stop it where i want. it does...then i surface when i want...i dont see a problem.

VonHelsching · 05-07-06, 06:01 AM

Nice catch.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in RL you were not able to interrup a crash dive. You had to go 60-70 meters all the way, right?

I also read somewere players cheating by pressing crash dive and then dive in order to shorten the crash dive time by a couple of seconds.

This is not tolerated by the BdU

BigBadVuk · 05-07-06, 06:16 AM

Wait...now u managed to confuse me...I also crash dive from time to time(5-6 per patrol) but afther that i usualy interupt that action either by going deeper(more often) or by going to PD...My instruments shows normal angle and sub is responding to all my commands normaly...So..what is this all about?Im using GW1.1

CptGrayWolf · 05-07-06, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VonHelsching

Nice catch.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in RL you were not able to interrup a crash dive. You had to go 60-70 meters all the way, right?

I also read somewere players cheating by pressing crash dive and then dive in order to shorten the crash dive time by a couple of seconds.

This is not tolerated by the BdU

I don't see why the chief can't level the boat at 50m... :hmm: maybe the experts out there will tell us.

The Noob · 05-07-06, 09:05 AM

Another question, is i set the "Crash dive depth" in the configs to 20 Meter, does the U-Boat Submerge the same fast as if it is set to 70 Meters?

Phylacista · 05-07-06, 11:38 AM

Hmm I interrupt crash dive almost every time - most times I go deeper. So it will remain "humming bird" for me, unless...

...what happens when I will press A after reaching designates depth? Will the boat level?

Stiebler · 05-07-06, 12:47 PM

I can confirm that Observer's solution solves the problem for me. Revised procedure is to crash-dive, hard-port rudder, from surface or periscope depth to 70m, circle at this depth for one game minute, flank speed and set dial depth gauge to 120m. Level out, go to silent running/slow ahead. *No* slow sinking seen now even down to 1 kt.

Tested with Type IXB U-boat in June-August 1942, west of Biscay (J-class and C-class destroyers) and in Caribbean (Clemson destroyers). Total of five successful escapes, multiple pounding by missed depth-charges close by, without damage or slow-sinking of U-boat.

Great work, Observer!!

Stiebler.

The Noob · 05-07-06, 12:57 PM

This NYGM Sub mod sounds very Buggy. And, i like the humming bird. Have to get NYGM Tonnage War Before this mod gets implentet...

Stiebler · 05-07-06, 02:18 PM

The Noob said:

Quote:

This NYGM Sub mod sounds very Buggy. And, i like the humming bird. Have to get NYGM Tonnage War Before this mod gets implentet...

It's a pity that Teddy Bar's attempts to draw a STOCK game bug to everyone's attention have resulted in a complaint that NYGM is buggy.

I should like everyone to know that NYGM mods are *extremely* well tested - unlike certain other mods that I could name (and which I won't use) - and that is how this STOCK bug became known. As Teddy Bar and I have both made clear - this STOCK bug is now cleared up, and there never was a bug in the NYGM U-boat damage mod. I personally spent dozens of hours - time when I should have been playing golf - to evaluate this problem. I know that Teddy Bar and Observer did too.

There is no bug in the NYGM U-boat damage model. Has everyone got that?

Stiebler.

NYGM Tonnage War Mod - Leading Edge Realism

05-07-06, 02:44 PM

I have on several occassions ordered a crash dive, then immediately hit Periscope Depth, and have never had a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptGrayWolf

I don't see why the chief can't level the boat at 50m... :hmm: maybe the experts out there will tell us.

I'm no expert on submarines, but as I understand it there are preset procedures for different types of dives. All vents must be closed before the dive order can be given, which is why you must first go to periscope depth and then come back up to Decks Awash. A standard dive means flooding the tanks to a certain preset level, whereas a crash dive requires full flooding then blowing some back out in order to get the boat down faster.

70m? 50m? I don't know what the deciding factor would be, unless it's not mechanical, but rather doctrine. Several people have the U-Boat Commanders' Handbook. Maybe one of them can find it.

gouldjg · 05-07-06, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiebler

The Noob said:

Quote:

This NYGM Sub mod sounds very Buggy. And, i like the humming bird. Have to get NYGM Tonnage War Before this mod gets implentet...

It's a pity that Teddy Bar's attempts to draw a STOCK game bug to everyone's attention have resulted in a complaint that NYGM is buggy.

I should like everyone to know that NYGM mods are *extremely* well tested - unlike certain other mods that I could name (and which I won't use) - and that is how this STOCK bug became known. As Teddy Bar and I have both made clear - this STOCK bug is now cleared up, and there never was a bug in the NYGM U-boat damage mod. I personally spent dozens of hours - time when I should have been playing golf - to evaluate this problem. I know that Teddy Bar and Observer did too.

There is no bug in the NYGM U-boat damage model. Has everyone got that?

Stiebler.

NYGM Tonnage War Mod - Leading Edge Realism

What other mods?,

Is it me or is there a slight tit tat going on here. Considering I am one of a few people whom has delved into damage files, I am getting the feeling that NYGM team members are beginning to take cheap shots at work I did 6 months ago alone and without this methodical approach.

First there is the "I dont like the Hollywood sinking because it is unrealistic" then there is the "Hollywood mods could be responsible for the engine destroyed messages" Now there is the "unlike some mods which I will not use" whilst on the subject of Sub damage model and Hollywood is only other version out there. Maybe I am being paranoid or maybe not.

I for one know how much work you guys are doing and how many hours it takes to test things regarding damage mods. I admire your work though do not completely agree on every aspect of it but I keep stump because I know how to change it to suit me.

I have even paused all work on dynamic and randomised features of ships sinkings and sub damage as well as putting some life into the DD. I did this because I wanted to have a model from which to place a chaos file onto and yours looked the most promising and well thought out one.

I like the Historical approach of NYGM and had ways and methods to assist the players whom like it but just wanted slight more variety and I am sure others do.

If you have objections, make them clear and I will build my own base

I sincerely appollogise if I have jumped the gun on this but I just do not want to see SH3 modding scene going the way Rome total war went as far as the modding scene is concerned. Mine is better than that etc etc.

Share ideas and share work, spot a fault and inform each other, but please, stop sniping little attacks on a old mod, that fore many players, has give some satisfaction.

Nuff said on my part

Ducimus · 05-07-06, 03:06 PM

Heh, theres a reason why i don't release anything i do, I don't care to hear the flak nor criticism that can be generated. Because I mix Realism with gameynesss to create the most engaging Sub Sim experience i can get. (See patrol 3 on my u-178 patrol log, that was with hollywoods damage model, one of goldjgs EARLIER ones.)

Many people fail to realize something.
You don't have to install a mod if you don't like it.

My 2 cents.

05-07-06, 01:10 AM	#1
Der Teddy Bar Blade Master Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,388 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Crash Dive Blues! Guys, In beta testing of the NYGM U-boat Mod Stiebler has noted an intermittent issue where he would experience difficulty maintain depth at 1/3 ahead. Try as I might I could replicate this issue. That is, until Observer found the answerâ€¦ an Interrupted CRASH DIVE. Let me start by saying that the interrupted crash dive behaviour is a evident in a vanilla install of SHIII 1.4b, this â€˜featureâ€™ is brought to the fore by the NYGM U-Boat Mod. If you order a crash dive and before the u-boat reaches the crash dive depth (normally about 70 metres) you order the u-boat to another depth (higher or lower) then what happens is that the u-boat sits down by the stern at an angle of about 10 degree angle!!! The only way to get the u-boat back onto an even keel is then to order another crash dive and of course let it complete. Due to the abundance of positive buoyancy that allows the U-Boat to hover like a Humming Bird this â€˜featureâ€™ was not seen by the player. It would have however made the u-boat sink or sink more severely when the stern of the u-boat was flooding but this is something that the player would have expected and hard to tell the difference between flooding occurances. So if you order a crash dive ensure that you let the u-boat go the full distance, you can however change speed & direction without issue.

05-07-06, 02:42 AM	#2
Salvadoreno Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 887 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	i dont get it __________________

05-07-06, 03:31 AM	#3
Myxale Admiral Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: PQ AN 25 Posts: 2,178 Downloads: 70 Uploads: 0	Wow, thats a pretty nifty fact there Teddy. It's just, i can't count the times i interupted my crash dives. I'm kind of an English Channel fanatic and there's no way to go down to the whole CD depth. Can't belive the Vanilla is that poor. But nevertheless, i look foward toe the cool things you guys come up with. __________________ SH3+GWX SH5+WoS Still Sailing....still Deep

05-07-06, 06:16 AM	#6
BigBadVuk Ensign Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Belgrade,Serbia Posts: 222 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Wait...now u managed to confuse me...I also crash dive from time to time(5-6 per patrol) but afther that i usualy interupt that action either by going deeper(more often) or by going to PD...My instruments shows normal angle and sub is responding to all my commands normaly...So..what is this all about?Im using GW1.1 __________________ Any ship can submerge.. Only submarine can surface!

05-07-06, 11:38 AM	#9
Phylacista Electrician's Mate Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Aachen, Germany Posts: 133 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Hmm I interrupt crash dive almost every time - most times I go deeper. So it will remain "humming bird" for me, unless... ...what happens when I will press A after reaching designates depth? Will the boat level? __________________ commissioned 01APR1941 - 1.Flotilla Brest - 110,000 GRT total - 84 days at sea click pic to see how the real U-556 fared

05-07-06, 03:44 AM	#4
Mr.Werner Watch Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 29 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	crash dive and let it go the full lenght?? what are you talking about. I crash dive all the time and stop it where i want. it does...then i surface when i want...i dont see a problem.

05-07-06, 06:01 AM	#5
VonHelsching Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 1,025 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Nice catch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in RL you were not able to interrup a crash dive. You had to go 60-70 meters all the way, right? I also read somewere players cheating by pressing crash dive and then dive in order to shorten the crash dive time by a couple of seconds. This is not tolerated by the BdU

05-07-06, 09:05 AM	#8
The Noob The Old Man Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: de_dust2 Posts: 1,417 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Another question, is i set the "Crash dive depth" in the configs to 20 Meter, does the U-Boat Submerge the same fast as if it is set to 70 Meters?

05-07-06, 12:47 PM	#10
Stiebler Fuel Supplier Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,237 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 4	I can confirm that Observer's solution solves the problem for me. Revised procedure is to crash-dive, hard-port rudder, from surface or periscope depth to 70m, circle at this depth for one game minute, flank speed and set dial depth gauge to 120m. Level out, go to silent running/slow ahead. No slow sinking seen now even down to 1 kt. Tested with Type IXB U-boat in June-August 1942, west of Biscay (J-class and C-class destroyers) and in Caribbean (Clemson destroyers). Total of five successful escapes, multiple pounding by missed depth-charges close by, without damage or slow-sinking of U-boat. Great work, Observer!! Stiebler.

05-07-06, 12:57 PM	#11
The Noob The Old Man Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: de_dust2 Posts: 1,417 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	This NYGM Sub mod sounds very Buggy. And, i like the humming bird. Have to get NYGM Tonnage War Before this mod gets implentet...

05-07-06, 03:06 PM	#15
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Heh, theres a reason why i don't release anything i do, I don't care to hear the flak nor criticism that can be generated. Because I mix Realism with gameynesss to create the most engaging Sub Sim experience i can get. (See patrol 3 on my u-178 patrol log, that was with hollywoods damage model, one of goldjgs EARLIER ones.) Many people fail to realize something. You don't have to install a mod if you don't like it. My 2 cents.