Determining the depth of a contact

Nexus7 · 05-01-06, 09:25 AM

I read a few times that it is possible to establish at what depth a sub contact is and that it is easy to do, but never read how to do that can anyone tell me?

The only way I can imagine, is to use topography (know ctc range and some seamount range, change depth until ctc vanishes).

Sonoboy · 05-01-06, 11:08 AM

HFAS. That's really all I have to say, and it's the only way I know to get the exact depth of a contact.

Wildcat · 05-01-06, 01:37 PM

Well, there's honestly no point in knowing the contact's depth because unless you're under ice, if you did good tma your torpedoes will find the depth for you without your intervention.

However, that being said, there are a few ways to determine depth.. The best way to determine the approximate depth is to simply go above or below the layer and see which side the contact is strongest on.

There is also of course high frequency sonar, but there's no reason to get so close to a contact that you can see them on hf sonar.. except maybe under ice.

There is an old method we used to use for destroyers in Destroyer Command as well, but I'm not sure if the method still works in DW, probably not, the sonar is totally different. Anyway, the way we'd detect a uboat's depth was by making a sonar run on a submerged contact and using the angle of the sonar energy to determine depth. For example if you made a run on a contact and the contact suddenly stopped producing ping returns at 250meters away, you could safely assume his depth was 250 meters, etc..

I'm not sure if DW's active sonar models the angle of the sonar energy being emitted, so it may or may not be possible to determine depth on a submerged contact pinging. That may be worth some investigation. FWIW the only way it would be possible would be in the single beam active sonar mode on the FFG7, and it would take some experimenting in math to do it.

But again there's really no use for it at all, just detect what side of the layer your contact is on and fire your torpedo on that side. Even if he crosses it, the torpedo will probably find him when it gets close enough. If you worry then launch torps on both sides.

Henson · 05-01-06, 06:00 PM

Modern TMA makes a few assumptions about the battlespace, one of them being that both contacts are at the same depth. It makes the math a LOT easier, and is just as accurate from a purely TMA standpoint (though choosing search and evasion depths is something else entirely).

Don't worry about depth. If an ADCAP gains a track it'll feed depth back to you IRL.

compressioncut · 05-01-06, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat

There is an old method we used to use for destroyers in Destroyer Command as well, but I'm not sure if the method still works in DW, probably not, the sonar is totally different. Anyway, the way we'd detect a uboat's depth was by making a sonar run on a submerged contact and using the angle of the sonar energy to determine depth. For example if you made a run on a contact and the contact suddenly stopped producing ping returns at 250meters away, you could safely assume his depth was 250 meters, etc..

Yeah, but WWII active sonar was good to maybe 1500 meters range, and depended on direct path sound propagation to get an accurate measure of depth. Modern low and medium frequency sonars use multiple sound paths through which they determine range - depth is not a consideration. If you are inside four miles from the sub these days, you are pretty much a dead man.

And it's not that big a deal because the sub's useable portion of the water column is not that big - what, 1,500, maybe 2,000 vertical feet at best? Not like an airplane that can be anywhere from zero to 50,000 feet plus.

There are ways to determine depth on real sonobuoy grams and other displays, but it depends on a lot of stuff coming together at once and isn't necessarily useful, tactically.

Nexus7 · 05-02-06, 08:31 AM

Interesting answers thanks

But I was not much concerned about depth in regards of torpedo usage, but rather to gain informations like "the contact is at missile launch depth" or "the contact is decreasing his depth".

In the game, this information could (maybe) be of some use, for example it could raise the doubt that it's going to perform an asrocs launch, or more interesting, that he's going to engage some Land-Target. In some missions that could force me to engage the contact immediately instead of waiting for a better situation :hmm:

Maybe I could even tell if he's trying to hide ecc ecc...

05-01-06, 09:25 AM	#1
Nexus7 Commander Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 469 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Determining the depth of a contact I read a few times that it is possible to establish at what depth a sub contact is and that it is easy to do, but never read how to do that can anyone tell me? The only way I can imagine, is to use topography (know ctc range and some seamount range, change depth until ctc vanishes). __________________ If you are going through hell... keep going (Winston Churchill)

05-02-06, 08:31 AM	#6
Nexus7 Commander Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 469 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Interesting answers thanks But I was not much concerned about depth in regards of torpedo usage, but rather to gain informations like "the contact is at missile launch depth" or "the contact is decreasing his depth". In the game, this information could (maybe) be of some use, for example it could raise the doubt that it's going to perform an asrocs launch, or more interesting, that he's going to engage some Land-Target. In some missions that could force me to engage the contact immediately instead of waiting for a better situation :hmm: Maybe I could even tell if he's trying to hide ecc ecc... __________________ If you are going through hell... keep going (Winston Churchill)

05-01-06, 11:08 AM	#2
Sonoboy Planesman Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: United States, CA Posts: 195 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	HFAS. That's really all I have to say, and it's the only way I know to get the exact depth of a contact.

05-01-06, 01:37 PM	#3
Wildcat Engineer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 215 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Well, there's honestly no point in knowing the contact's depth because unless you're under ice, if you did good tma your torpedoes will find the depth for you without your intervention. However, that being said, there are a few ways to determine depth.. The best way to determine the approximate depth is to simply go above or below the layer and see which side the contact is strongest on. There is also of course high frequency sonar, but there's no reason to get so close to a contact that you can see them on hf sonar.. except maybe under ice. There is an old method we used to use for destroyers in Destroyer Command as well, but I'm not sure if the method still works in DW, probably not, the sonar is totally different. Anyway, the way we'd detect a uboat's depth was by making a sonar run on a submerged contact and using the angle of the sonar energy to determine depth. For example if you made a run on a contact and the contact suddenly stopped producing ping returns at 250meters away, you could safely assume his depth was 250 meters, etc.. I'm not sure if DW's active sonar models the angle of the sonar energy being emitted, so it may or may not be possible to determine depth on a submerged contact pinging. That may be worth some investigation. FWIW the only way it would be possible would be in the single beam active sonar mode on the FFG7, and it would take some experimenting in math to do it. But again there's really no use for it at all, just detect what side of the layer your contact is on and fire your torpedo on that side. Even if he crosses it, the torpedo will probably find him when it gets close enough. If you worry then launch torps on both sides.

05-01-06, 06:00 PM	#4
Henson Planesman Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 185 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Modern TMA makes a few assumptions about the battlespace, one of them being that both contacts are at the same depth. It makes the math a LOT easier, and is just as accurate from a purely TMA standpoint (though choosing search and evasion depths is something else entirely). Don't worry about depth. If an ADCAP gains a track it'll feed depth back to you IRL.