Trouble in the brothel

[Skybird]

http://www.heise.de/bin/tp/issue/r4/...539&mode=print

In Cologne, a brothel prepaired for the soccer world championship by advertising with a 25 m high poster on a house-wall, showing a woman and several national flags, amongst which was the Saudi flag. Masked men repeatedly appeared next, threatening severe consequences if this would continue to be displayed, for it is offending towards Muhammad because of the text in the flag (for the same reason the flag never is allowed to be rasied to half-mast). A pedophile sick pervert who at age 52 marries a 9 year old girl, beside 11 others, and insists on having sex with her (even for medieval times when princesses sometimes were married at younger ages of 13, 14, for political reasons, that was regarded as sick behavior), could be offended by showing his name in a flag and that flag in combination with a brothel advertisment and a adult female? Maybe they should have displayed that flag with a half-naked girl of age under ten, maybe then it would have been considered to be okay. Tzzzz... sooner or later this hypocritic two-tongued arrogance of Islam will kill my nerves. It's now a case for the police, and the damn Saudi flag had been blacked-out. I do not care for that brothel, but again this is an example how a primitive and aggressive ideology reserves the right to threaten everyone with violence who is not submitting to it's own primitive, superstitious worldviews. And again, the original inhabitants of this land I call home - have submitted to a foreign invader and gave in to fear. To hell with the latter.

[Skybird]

just noticed that international medias have oicked it up, too:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4941788.stm

BTW, if you look close, to display the Tunesian flag obviously is okay. The text in the Saudi flag says something like that there is only one God and that Muhammad is his prophet. Who cares. We are no Muslim country. We are even no Muslim clture. We are even no Muslim continent.

And from other contexts I remember that on official events, Saudi guests are well-known and generous customers of escort-services. It seems at least Muslim males in general are not underrepresented in the customer statistics of such services.

[TteFAboB]

Thanks.

Now I know what to use to wipe the dirt off my shoes.

I couldn't find a mat with the Mohammed cartoon anyway.

But you see how primitive FET's can be. They should threaten the royal family, and demand the phrase to be removed from the national flag so that no other insults like this happen ever again in the future.

Or not, and simply get real.

I ask: should all Muslims hold dear the Saudi Arabian flag or just Saudis? How many Saudis are there in Germany? There would be no better way to undermine such group and action than if Muslims and/or Saudies manifested in favour of the flag being displayed.

But no, you are right, it's the double-talk again. "I am moderate! I am not like those men!", then I tell you, go paint a Saudi Arabian flag at every damned Brothel you can find in Germany, and prove you are an opposing force, not a confusion-spreading appeasement.

By the way, what happened to the German police?

[Ishmael]

Hey, I can beat that. I have a Saudi flag that was misprinted withe the Arabic printed backwards. The regular script says,"There is No God but Allah & Mohammed is His Prophet".

So the backwards Arabic would say, "There is No God not God and Mohammed isn't his Prophet."

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Ishmael

Hey, I can beat that. I have a Saudi flag that was misprinted withe the Arabic printed backwards. The regular script says,"There is No God but Allah & Mohammed is His Prophet".

So the backwards Arabic would say, "There is No God not God and Mohammed isn't his Prophet."

Oh...looks like word has leaked out:

[Abraham]

The subsim policy is that we show a minimum of respect towards religions. It's certainly OK to point out things like this, but this thread could deteroriate in indiscriminate anti-muslin flaming.
Let's mind our words...

Abraham
(with his moderator cap on)

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Abraham

Let's mind our words...

Ay! Ay! Minding the words, mein kapitain!

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Ay! Ay! Minding the words, mein kapitain!

The EU and the subsim policies on free expression are hardly comparable:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...=436112#436112

And "Kapitain" with a capital "K" please, otherwise I might confuse you with Kapitain!

[Skybird]

I deserve the death penalty, I think.

In the warehouse were I work, the team of store detectives we currently have engaged are from an agency that is run by a Turk (I think), and he only has "Ausländer" in his service. The two guys patrolling our store are from Algeria, and Iran. I repeatedly talked to them during the brakes, we have a good comm-line to each other The Algerian said that three out of four thieves that he catches are Ausländer. He also says that dealing with them is difficult, because they are far more aggressive, arrogant, and bigmouthed than his German "victims". Becasue of these, he is fully armed with a protective waste-coat, a viper-stick (love that one!), spray and handcuffs. Next he says that these people make him feel ashamed, because he considers himself to be a visitor and guest only (although he has lived in Germany for many, many years now!), and a guest should behave and submit to the habits and rules of his host. We also talked about Islam and terrorism.

Well, their service began during the christmas time, and last monday he first admitted that he had checked the many things and views I told him about Islam (until now he is Muslim, or better he considers himself to be while I argued that he already had given up to be a true Muslim), and had spend quite some time in the libraries. First he felt massively attacked and kept on talking to me only because then we already had a good relationship. He even has started to visit lessons about comparing religious science, a free university course that is for the public, and this semestre is focussing on Islam, if I understood him correctly. In the beginning he was angry at me, but then started to learn to see things from a perspective that does not begin and does not end inside Islam. Last monday he said he started to consider to cancel his Muslimship, and that he has started to look with quite some disgust at Islam's history, too. He also is in deep trouble with his family, becasue of this. But I have good hope for him, and think he will make his way. It's always a beautiful thing to see a sleeper waking up.

The other guy, the Iranian, I also come along with very well, kind guy (and a good fighter, it seems). Like me he has done Wing Tsun, and even knew my Turkish trainer form Osnabrück, Turam. Having been in Iran for longer myself, we surely have two themes to talk about now He said all by himself what I think and have voiced in this forum repeatedly: having lived in both countries, but Germany in the main, he realizes that many Muslims who spend a long time in the West since their childhood only stick to Islam (in the original meaning that I have often explained) because they do not know any intellectual alternative. Next he complained abput the lack of historical knowlöedge about Islam that he said is very wide-spread in the Muslims communities that he does now in Germany! Well, that should have been my statement, shouldn'T it. The confrontation with the superior value system and civilizational developement of the West during the history of the last centuries often make them close their eyes and turn stubborn, defending their Islam stubbornly like being under a spell or in shock, deer in a headlight, but in very few cases make them aware of the backwardness of the system they have been in, that way the living example of life in the West is like a seed, raising doubts. He thinks that is what the pro-Islam-faction in Western politics is hoping for, but he says that they by far exaggerate their hopes. Only very very few Muslims will react like that, while in Brussel they seem to think a majoreity will do like that. This guy, too, is in doubt of whether he wants to stay inside Islam.

He also said that there is no real difference between moderate and fundamental Islam. Needless to say that this went down my ears like baby-oil... He surley knows quite some things about Islamic history.

These two Muslims are not the first two I talked into reassessing their belief, and I know of at least two persons, that in recent years partly to my influence had left Islam.

For turning fine believers into heretics, I really should be executed, don't you think? Also, the same say two letters from Anonymous that I received in January and February. So, if one day you do not heare and read from me anymore, you may assume that I have saved one Muslim too much

[Abraham]

Skybird's story fits with a study of the University of Amsterdam finding that 90% of the muslim youth in Amsterdam has no seriois religious affiliation with Islam anymore, never visits a mosque, never reads the Quran and consider being a muslim more like a socio-cultural thing.
It also explains why I am against generalising muslims.

By the way, Skybird's brothel story hit Dutch national TV this morning.
Did you all know that blacking out a national flag is a grave offense?
Anybody cares to demonstrate against blacking out the flags of Saudi Arabia and Iran?

[Happy Times]

Skybird, you could establish a movement to help and treat these muslims feeling anxiety in the West. : :hmm: Very risky business though

[Abraham]

Skybird should work for the brothel owner as 'special consultant on muslim affairs'.

Heck, thinking about it, the whole thing might have been set up by Skybird himself. If anyone would know that those flags were a provocation, it was Skybird. Some of his heretic ex-muslim friends probably posed as agent-provacateur to start a demonstration and oust some threats. Result: Skybird has a new topic for the subsim forum; the brothel gets loads of free publicity and will no doubt make record profits this summer...
Everybody happy.


I hope for Skybird that he made a good deal on this one!

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Abraham

Skybird's story fits with a study of the University of Amsterdam finding that 90% of the muslim youth in Amsterdam has no seriois religious affiliation with Islam anymore, never visits a mosque, never reads the Quran and consider being a muslim more like a socio-cultural thing.

Gotta link?

[Abraham]

Nope, heard a report on Business News Radio while driving my car.
But I''ll see if I can find out.
(I'm not that much into links as you are )

[Skybird]

Abraham'S conclusions are somewhat wrong. The man I reported about did not say that all Muslims living in the west loose their connection to their religion, in fact he said the opposite, maybe I haven'T made that clear enough: he said that being confronted with the higher degrees of freedom in Western values they either start having doubts on Islam (only a very few!), while most stick even closer to Islam, like a protective reflex in a situation of uncertainty, to avoid these doubts. I know from Berlin from socialworkers that I know there from earlier times that there it is like this, too, with school_age people and their families. And throughout germany we have very, very strong indications that especially the young ones of turkish origin show very intense symptoms of strengthened ties to a.) Islam and b.) an ultra-conservative, very nationalistic understanding of their turkish identity. The drastic spreading of acceptance for a movement like the "Grey Wolves" speak volumes here. We also have the problem of dominant acceptance for family murders, with male and female turkish and Albanian teens alike. A majority of male schoolboys, if I remember correctly, and one third, I think, of girls accept these things and find them okay (a study from schools in Berlin, I referred to these things in more detail some months earlier).

Okay, I knew several people who - partly to my influence - left Islam. but it is by far not the rule that Muslims living in the West are doing like this. Ghetto-building, isolation, and the element of culture_shock that I tried to explain are causing quite the opposite effect: an even more stubborn sticking to thier understanding of what Islam is. As I said, he expressed his opinion that western policies are massively exaggerating their hopes that living by the Western example automatically leaves to a modernization of Islam interpretation. It is quite the opposite, he and me thinks.

When talking of Muslims, i mean "Muslim" in the original definition by Islam: Quran, Hadith, the realistic biography of the historical Muhammad (not the fairy-tale hero Islam has made of him). I need to stress this again. I never came along very well with "true" Muslims. I do not practive friendships with true Muslims, like I also do not tolerate stalinists or Nazis and the like. The Muslims I had good relations with always were no true Muslims at all, whom already had abandoned major parts of the identity of Islam without realizing it. maybe I need to make a more precise difference in my writings between non-Muslims (who just think of themselves as Muslims), true Muslims (towards whom I am absolutely hostile), and auslkänder/immigrants comwing from Muslim countries. but then I start to sound like this EU-language commission, don't I.

And no, neither did I know that blacking a Saudi flag is an offense for them (maybe I would have come to it if only I ever would have spend a thought on it - but why should I have done so?), nor did I know that this thing is not allowed to be raised to half-mast. In our places we should ignore such reservations from people far, far away. It is our place and ruling, not theirs.

Think of the regular broadsides Brtish yellow press is firing against us Germans. For some reason we Germans like the British much more, then they like us. If our bild-Zeitung always would answer The Sun on equal terms, London and Berlin woukld be smoking rubble today, and WWII would have been revisited. Look out for it with regard to the soccer event coming up. We germans know that until then they will fire some more unfair headlines at us. Well, there are thing you simply ignore and see them pass by withiout making a big issue of it. this more relaxed attitude is something that would serve Islam in general and the Saudis in special well, I think. we have many irritations and "offenses" taking place in the Wqetsern press, aiming at some of our neighbouring coiuntries. do we threaten to start wars because of that? Usually we do the best that can be done when such nonsens happens: we do nothing.