Advices: If you have to dive your boat to ocean floor

[Rosencrantz]

I have noticed many of us has find it difficult to dive the boat to the ocean floor and to stay there without major damages. Well, it can be done and here are my advices:

1. If you are in storm conditions, you HAVE to find water deep enough so the waves won't lift the boat up and hit it back to the bottom. So, maybe 60 meters + is needed for that if in the storm.

2. Get your boat close to the bottom step by step and while doing that, ping the depth if possible.

3. When you are ready, stop the engines and when your speed is 1 - 2 knots, give "Dive" order by hitting D key. DO NOT give a new depth order because this will cause your boat starting again going up and down = you hit the bottom several times. JUST hit the D key and everything should be go just OK.

4. Keep in mind you can't handle the boat just by dive order if you are in shallow waters because the waves will lift your boat no matter what you try to do for that. In RL you could take some more water in (into the saddle tanks, not in the boat!) but that's not possible in SHIII so the dive order is the only way you to "lock" your boat to the bottom.

-RC-

[pyret]

I dont see the meaning with putting yout boat in the bottom.
Does it give less response to pinging or what?
Nice guide anyway!

[Dowly]

I´ve tried several times to hide in the ocean floor, everytime it has resulted on 100% accuracy from the DD´s and I´ve been dead.

[Rosencrantz]

Well, first of all: If you are a hardcore player maybe you have a rule of thumb that you NEVER, EVER stop your boat while submerged because in RL this would cause boat start to loose the depth control. That's why, if you want just to lay down, nice and peacefull, you have to drive to the bottom. (So no more "plotting" the targets course and after that just sitting there, speed 0, in PD, just waiting the target). So, that's the basic or main reason = In RL you can't keep your depth if your speed is 0.

So, in any case you want just lay and wait, you go to the bottom.

There is exeptions in sea conditions. Sometimes you can find the layer where there is cold, very heavy water under and warm, lightweight water on the top, and - if you can set your boat on top of the heavier water, it's possible to stop the engines and the heavy water will carry your boat. But, this is just an exeption and it's also hard to find these layers even they exist (thinking that germans didn't have a proper tool to measure water temperatures). Also to drive the boat on the layer would not be an easy task.

Hope you can get what I mean, even that my english is not that good.

Greetings,

-RC-

[Keelbuster]

For me, it's okay to stchopp while waiting for targets to move into the 90degree position. Sure - i sink by a few meters. Right before my attack, I put on 2kts and move back to PD. No probs.

kb

[don1reed]

Hi Rosencrantz

You said:

(thinking that germans didn't have a proper tool to measure water temperatures).

The following is from Dr. Timothy P. Mulligan's book NEITHER SHARKS NOR WOLVES, here, speaking about duties in the Zentrale:

...The captain, L.I., and Obersteuermann spent most of their time here or close by as a matter of course. A machinist's mate served as the Zentralemaat (control room mate), whose prime responsibility, assisted by one or two enlisted men (each designated a Zentralegast), concerned maintaining the boat's trim while submerged, alternately pumping or flooding small amounts of seawater into or out of the trim tanks. This in turn required precise data--daily updated in a separate logbook--on the weight distribution of fuel and foodstuffs on board. Other duties included managing the air supply while submerged (for example, pumping air from the engine room spaces to the more crowded forward torpedo compartment); maintaining the periscopes; and checking underwater salinity and temperature levels.

This leads me to believe that they had the wherewithal to compute Thermoclines, and the equipment.

btw OT: What a lot of folks don't realize is that the navigators on the U-Boats were mainly NCO's.(Obersteuermann)

Cheers,

[Heibges]

I remember we debated this before SH3 came out. I believe the issue wasn't do much that they couldn't compute them, but that in a tactical sense, there wasn't much use for them.

The uboat operated on the surface the vast majority of the time. They needed to move at maximum speed to get into position to attack convoy.

When they dove, they dove deep. The area between PD and 150m is like the area between trenchlines in WWI, or the baseline and the serviceline in tennis: no man's land.

So if when you were forced to dive, you happened to have a thermal layer above you it was a bonus, but not something you would figure into your tactical plan.

EXCEPTION: In his memoirs, Dönitz tells a story about a uboat commander operating off Cape Town or Freetown in one of the areas where convoys formed up. He was operating in relatively shallow water, and used a Thermal Layer to sneak in, attack, and sneak out again.

[humesdog]

What's the name of the mod that allows you to speed up tc when in shallow water? Does this work when you're on the bottom because I find when I go down to the floor I can only use 1X tc and its pretty boring down there.

With the default game you should still be able to go to 32x on the sea floor.

SHIII Commander lets you set TC for any value you like.

So does editing your own CFG files. I forget which one, and as I can't post from home I can't tell you right now. I'm nowhere near my own computer.

[Myxale]

From what i read, the resting your boot on the ocean ground was a common technique back then to wait in shallow water, or to rest if this was needed.

The CE had to keep the boot in the direct flow and had to flood mor or less, depending on the sea conditions.

Well...anyway :hmm:

[BigBadVuk]

Well i was hit(rammed) in channel by nasty DD and as a result of heavy flooding in stern i hit the bottom(some 40m)....For the next 20-30 mins the DD was buzzing all around me and droped a LOT of DCs but none come near close to make any further dammage to my sub...Eventualy he left me on the bottom to fix my ship and return to port(i was returning anyway)....so i think there is some conections between sitting on the bottom and detection cappabilities of DD...

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by Rosencrantz

Hope you can get what I mean, even that my english is not that good.

Your English is FINE!! I'm sure your command of English is superior to mine in whatever language it is that you speak.

One thing which sucks about being an American is that we don't really get any chance to practice other languages (except Spanish, of course). If you live in small crossroads country surrounded by countries all speaking different languages, you WILL know more than one language fluently. That ISN'T the U.S.

[BigBadVuk]

ha ha ha..nice point there...wanna move to Balkans? :rotfl: maybe??

[Khayman]

Originally Posted by BigBadVuk

so i think there is some conections between sitting on the bottom and detection cappabilities of DD...

It does seem to be a tactic that worked for some. The problem however is if the attackers hang around. You're not going to put any distance between you and them, and at some point you're going to have to surface.

[Rosencrantz]

Hello, to all of you, folks!

don1reed wrote:

The following is from Dr. Timothy P. Mulligan's book NEITHER SHARKS NOR WOLVES, here, speaking about duties in the Zentrale:

Quote:

...The captain, L.I., and Obersteuermann spent most of their time here or close by as a matter of course. A machinist's mate served as the Zentralemaat (control room mate), whose prime responsibility, assisted by one or two enlisted men (each designated a Zentralegast), concerned maintaining the boat's trim while submerged, alternately pumping or flooding small amounts of seawater into or out of the trim tanks. This in turn required precise data--daily updated in a separate logbook--on the weight distribution of fuel and foodstuffs on board. Other duties included managing the air supply while submerged (for example, pumping air from the engine room spaces to the more crowded forward torpedo compartment); maintaining the periscopes; and checking underwater salinity and temperature levels.


This leads me to believe that they had the wherewithal to compute Thermoclines, and the equipment.

btw OT: What a lot of folks don't realize is that the navigators on the U-Boats were mainly NCO's.(Obersteuermann)

You might be right, don, but I think I have seen in some former Uboats commanders memoirs they lacked to have proper equipment to measure the under water temperatures and, if I remember right, that they also lacked the full "knowhow" about the undersea conditions (layers etc.) to have them used in full quantity. Sorry, but now I just can't remember what was the source. The other interesting part is, again if I remember this right, in USN they didn't have the equipment we are talking about, right in the beginning of the war (1941 for USN boats), BUT a little bit later. I'm not sure about this but it could be somewhere in 1942 or 1943.
MAYBE THERE IS SOMEONE WHO COULD CONFIRM THESE OR NOT TO CONFIRM THESE? I can try to find info, but I'm not able to do it in next few days.

Anyway, it seems to me pretty odd, if they lacked the equipment. But when you think they could just not to "tie" the normal temperature "tool" (what is that in english?) on the outside of the boat (would be broken when DC'd :rotfl: ) I can think this might be the reason. If I'm right they used somekind of "electric" system with cabels to measure the temperatures. Have to find it out.

What you wrote about the navigators on board, you are right don!

Greetings,

-RC-