A few quirks in GW + NYGM + EUC

[vois2]

I took a good long weekend to play GW + NYGM + EUC for the first time, running through my first career patrol (Oct 1939). I think it's an excellent enhancement to the game, and I was wondering about the following observations:

(1) CRASH DAMAGE UPON EACH LOAD: I had the misfortune of having a surprise torpedo boat shoot me up pretty good around 25% through my patrol. Upon each saved-game load up subsequent to this event, the interior sub lights would flash and the instrument panels would crack and damage would be reported, even though I had just started up the game in the middle of the Atlantic with no enemy nearby. (I suspect it's an error, unless it is not an error -- used as a method to remind the player their sub suffered damage to the hull previously.)

(2) SEEMS TO BE MUCH MORE POPULATED OCEAN: Before I even started the new career, I had decided to avoid the temptation of using the good old (on F5 NavMap) "FPS slowdown means unseen convoy within 50km" evidence from the stock game. This meant much more calculation necessary on the part of the processor and/or graphical engines. However, in GW/NYGM/EUC, I notice that FPS slowdowns happen quite often (I don't mind this) and I suspect it is because there is a more populated ocean now. Also, I wondered whether the presence of coastal mines would cause these more advanced calulcations, too.

(3) THREE GHOST ENGINE ROOM SLOTS: I have no problem with the fatigue, ship damage, or own-sub damage models in GW/NYGM/EUC. But I consistently needed to remove the three 'X'd out men (type VIIB) from the engine room where the stock game wishes to place them upon each submerge and surfacing. These three ghost men increased the efficiency of the engine room, bit it was clear they were not intended to be used in the room.

Patrol 1 results: 21,162 tons
4 allied boats (3 large cargo, and 1 trawler)
+3 unsuccessful attacks
80% hull remainder

[Montbrun]

1) Just ignore it - stock SH3 "bug." There's no ramifications.
2) Yeah - the good old FPS hits...
3) The NYGM Fatigue Model eliminates some crew slots in the engine room. The explanation is in the notes for NYGM.

Montbrun

[vois2]

I'm aware that NYGM removes the slots from the engine rooms.
But the game always wants to go ahead and fill up the rooms to eight men anyway, making 3 of them appear as 'ghosts' when it fills the whole room. This happens upon each submerge and each surface. Heck, I don't even remember the stock game wanting to fill all engine slots upon each transition to/from submerge and surface. I haven't seen others complain about this quirk.

So, do you have this issue?

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by Montbrun

...
3) The NYGM Fatigue Model eliminates some crew slots in the engine room. ...

That's why I always dump increased traffic and harbor mods.

On my modest system it lags way too much.

[vois2]

jasonb885 --
Sorry to bug you, but if I have the following and only the following installed...
GW 1.0
NYGM 1.03
EUC (extended unified campaign)

... and I wished to do as you do (remove harbor traffic and increased traffic mods) ... would that be easy or involved?

Thanks very much. All mods above enabled via JSGME.

[Observer]

Originally Posted by vois2

I'm aware that NYGM removes the slots from the engine rooms.
But the game always wants to go ahead and fill up the rooms to eight men anyway, making 3 of them appear as 'ghosts' when it fills the whole room. This happens upon each submerge and each surface. Heck, I don't even remember the stock game wanting to fill all engine slots upon each transition to/from submerge and surface. I haven't seen others complain about this quirk.

So, do you have this issue?

The compartment efficiencies are the determinate for how many slots need to get filled in each compartment. The easy way to get around this behavior is to not use seamen in the neutral zone spaces. I use warrant offices without the mechanic qual, in particular the medic, unqualified warrants and torpedomen.

[vois2]

Observer (or anyone) --

But what about when the program fills up those neutral spaces upon each submerge/surface? Do you get this behavior when you play?

Is there a way to get the program to stop filling in these neutral spots? I don't place men there, but the program does upon each submerge/surface.

[HW3]

Before you go out on patrol, go to the crew management screen and remove the extra seamen. You will notice that you have more seamen assigned to your u-boat than allowed by the mod, just remove them and all will fine. The fps hit is caused by the use of Tankeriv's 256MB seafloor mod in the GW mod. Go to the optional files and use the stock seafloor files to fix it.

[vois2]

HW3 --
Thanks very much for helpful info !!!

[Observer]

Originally Posted by vois2

Observer (or anyone) --

But what about when the program fills up those neutral spaces upon each submerge/surface? Do you get this behavior when you play?

Is there a way to get the program to stop filling in these neutral spots? I don't place men there, but the program does upon each submerge/surface.

Yes, I do get that behavior. It is a function of the minimum compartment efficiency, and is a hard coded feature. Truth is I wish I could add extra crew berthing spaces and eliminate the neutral zone, but that's not possible.

There are a number of different strategies you can use to deal with this problem. First, do not use ordinary seamen in the neutral zone. Every time you use the escape key or hit "P" for periscope depth, they will be shifted to the operating engine room. Very annoying.

One way to avoid this is the use unqualified warrants in the neutral space. They will not shift in this manner and leaves the rest spaces open for more important crew members.

One other strategy is to use the stern torpedo room and rotate extra crew members here when you rotate your watch sections.

Another strategy is to not bring the extra crew members so you have enough rest slots to rest the crew without extras.

Of course there are others depending on how you want to manage the crew. The choice is yours. Pick a method that best fits your style of play.

[vois2]

Observer --

Thank you, that answers all the questions I had for this annoying quirk!

[U-Bones]

What is meant by "neutral zone spaces" ?

The games inability to properly switch the engine crews has always ticked me off

[Montbrun]

Vois2,

This is the setup that I use for the Crew Rotation for NYGM Fatigue Model:

Type VIIb

1st Watch (12 hours):
Watch - 1st Watch Officer, 1 PO, 3 Ratings (Rotate with 2nd Watch every 6 hours)
Engine Room - 1 PO, 4 Ratings
Command Room - 1 Engineer Officer Slot (“Weapons Officer�), 1 Navigation Officer Slot (“Navigation Officer�), 1 PO, 2 Ratings
Radio Room - 2 PO

�Rest�
Stern Quarters
Engine Room 2nd Watch - 1 PO, 4 Ratings
Command Room 2nd Watch - 1 “Engineer Officer,� 1 PO, 2 Ratings

Bow Quarters
Watch, 2nd Watch - 2nd Watch Officer, 1 PO, 3 Ratings
Radio Room 2nd Watch - 2 PO
Torpedomen – 3 PO, 3 Ratings (always on “rest� until needed)

Total – 5 Officers, 13 Petty Officers, 21 Crewmen

This setup leaves 4 open slots in the Bow Quarters for the current Watch crew. All Quarters Slots are filled when submerged. In addition to rotating the Watch crew every 6 hours, I also rotate the Officers every 6 hours, keeping the Engineer Officer and Navigation Officer slots filled at all times. When combat is imminent, I then assign the Weapons Officer slot also, so that all Command Room Officer slots are then filled. This keeps the Officers at a fair level of rest. If the weather is particularly bad, I use the Torpedomen to spell some of the Bridge Watch crew, or, just submerge the boat. I also use the Torpedomen for the Repair section, and make sure that the Officers have multiple Qualifications for redundancy.

All of this is getting to my point:

After the first patrol, I assign ALL RATINGS a qualification with SH3 Commander. For example, the 6 Ratings in the 1st and 2nd Watches, I assign the “Watch� Qualification. All of the Ratings used in the Engine Room, 8, I assign the “Machinist� Qualification. This has no affect on the game, as SH3 doesn’t recognize the Qualifications on the Ratings, for effectiveness of the compartment, BUT, the game DOES recognize the Qualification for assignments, assigning the proper crewman to the proper compartment.

I know the problem that you’re talking about, but since implementing this system, I’ve not had it happen again.

Thanks,

Montbrun

[Montbrun]

Originally Posted by U-Bones

What is meant by "neutral zone spaces" ?

The games inability to properly switch the engine crews has always ticked me off

The unused Engine Room is a "Neutral Space." Fatigue is neither increased, or diminished. When submerged, I like to put the "fully rested" Watch Officer in the (in this case) Diesel Engine Room, and let the "tired" Watch Officer rest in the Bow Quarters.

[vois2]

Montbrun --

I do appreciate your investment in explaining your crew rotation plan.

It's clear that you're following a "true and real" pattern of station rotation and fatigue sharing. This is a matter of preference in playing style, which is admireable. I do avoid that playing style however, so that I only really mess with fatigue during extended combat periods or battle stations.

As an example, running at 1024 speed for the long hauls across mostly non-occupied vast water, no one suffers from fatigue. I wasn't sure if you actually rotate your men on those long hauls to/from base, which would actually have you rotating men about 60 times on a 30-day patrol, for instance.