Q to modders of GW and NYGM - convoy escorts?

[Catfish]

Hello,
installed SH3, patch 1.4b, GW mod, NYGM mod and unified career.
I'm really impressed, graphics and the boat's modeling is more like the real thing now (only that VIIBs are known to have dived to 220 meters, does not seem to be possible here?).

But there are some small problems, or better observations:
I'm in November 1939, east of BE 61, and ran into a convoy. This convoy is heavily protected by Black Swan frigates, Flower class corvettes and other various destroyers ?

1. Historically there were not yet convoys in october 1939
2. There were no Black Swan and Flower class in october 1939
3. If there were convoys in 1939, they would not have been escorted yet

Now the question ...
Is this a SH3 vanilla problem, or do the mods add something like that? Thinking back to when SH3 came out i cannot remember escorted convoys, with ship classes that appeared much later, in 1939 ? But maybe i do not remember this correctly.

Another thing is that the damage model does not seem to include breaking bulkheads and ruptured steam pipes, as well as sinking ships due to impact shock fractures - those ships are now unnecessarily hard to sink - flooding because of impact holes was not the only reason why ships sank. I saw a C3 hit by four torpedoes going on with seven knots for hours, its bow under water. No captain would have done that, stopping and setting out lifeboats would be the appropriate reaction. Running at 7 knots with the bow underwater would have sunk that ship in minutes, its engines drilling the ship into the sea, and the speed pressing the flooded compartment water on the bulkheads making them collapse. My general impression is that a part of the otherwise great mods is a bit too "overmodelled" in a way that it was a bit easier in reality than here - realism should not make it unbelievable hard, at least if correct modeling of history is the mod's goal.

Anyway all this adds some uncertainty that makes the whole sim much more fun to play, thank you very much.

Greetings,
Catfish

edit:
Just read some of the posts, here - damage model still under construction as i see, sorry.

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by Catfish

...
But there are some small problems, or better observations:
I'm in November 1939, east of BE 61, and ran into a convoy. This convoy is heavily protected by Black Swan frigates, Flower class corvettes and other various destroyers ?

1. Historically there were not yet convoys in october 1939
2. There were no Black Swan and Flower class in october 1939
3. If there were convoys in 1939, they would not have been escorted yet

Convoys have a low spawn probability in 1939, but it's non-zero. Additionally, convoy definitions often run multiple years. OA and OB, for example, run from '39 to '41. I couldn't leave them unescorted for three years, so, yes, they have escorts. You'll find HX39 to have few if any.

There are no additional escort ship models to use, so, yes, you may find COs and FGs in convoys that run from '39 to '41 in the game. This is partially a limitation of available ship models and partially a limitation of available convoy routes. No one ever added any additional definitions for these convoys.

You could go as far as defining each convoy route for each month of the way to ensure maximum realism, but unsurprisingly, no one has quite stepped up to that task yet...

Originally Posted by Catfish

Now the question ...
Is this a SH3 vanilla problem, or do the mods add something like that? Thinking back to when SH3 came out i cannot remember escorted convoys, with ship classes that appeared much later, in 1939 ? But maybe i do not remember this correctly.

No, you are correct. Most of the current major mods use my Improved Convoys mod. I took the liberties as described earlier as necessary to ensure later convoys from definitions that run for multiple years are escorted, rather than not. Having unescorted convoys after '39 would be boring and unrealistic indeed. As a result, patrols in '39 may be less realistic and 'easy' than necessary. But the stock game was too 'easy'. I balanced realism, my personal time, and gameplay.

[Catfish]

Hello jasonb885,
thanks for making this clear - so i'll be a bit less lazy engaging convoys in the early years .
I sneaked through the outer perimeter in the night and managed to sink a C2 with one torpedo, but unfortunately i had already fired two to be sure (what a waste). After this a Flower corvette at some 1900 meters away switched on the search light, but they did not find me.
However i realized that a Flower class corvette is faster than my VIIB, in case they had noticed me i would not have been able to outrun it.
As far as i know the corvettes were good for some 12 to 14 knots, but here they easily reach the speed of an U-boat.
Thanks again, greetings and happy easter,
Catfish

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Hello jasonb885,
thanks for making this clear - so i'll be a bit less lazy engaging convoys in the early years .
I sneaked through the outer perimeter in the night and managed to sink a C2 with one torpedo, but unfortunately i had already fired two to be sure (what a waste). After this a Flower corvette at some 1900 meters away switched on the search light, but they did not find me.
However i realized that a Flower class corvette is faster than my VIIB, in case they had noticed me i would not have been able to outrun it.
As far as i know the corvettes were good for some 12 to 14 knots, but here they easily reach the speed of an U-boat.
Thanks again, greetings and happy easter,
Catfish

Thanks. You too.