SHIII Commander – weird message

[Skubber]

I recently installed the latest Commander 2.5, and everything is working great, but....

Everytime I load up a new game I get the message from the crew: "starboard diesel engine destroyed, sir!"

The engine isn't destroyed. There's no damage. I just get this message.
And then afterwards the game operates normally.

I get the message if I begin a new patrol from port, or if I load up a game mid-patrol from a save.

What do you think is going on?

(Followed commander installation instructions.) Did a rollback. Uninstalled old Commmander, installed new version.)

[mike_espo]

I got the same message. I looked in the Damage/Crew screen and indeed, my stbd diesel was destroyed. Did not have no contact with enemy.....

Is it some new random damage?? If so, Cool :|\

[Herr Karl]

The strange message I recieve is when I'm submerged, and I get "not enough crew in diese engine compartment".

:hmm:

Funny that we are having strange or irrelevant messages about the same compartment. I'm sure JS will know whats up.

[JScones]

If you look at the latest SH3Cmdr changes, you'll see that there were no changes made that could result in this error. Indeed SH3Cmdr has never "tinkered" with any sub compartment.

Unless, it is somehow related to the Thermal Layers addition... So, can you pls, as a test, rename the SH3Cmdr "Randomised events.cfg" file to anything else and try again?

BTW, I assume that you have not installed Hemisent's Sabotage Mod nor have you made any other changes to the SH3Cmdr cfg files? If so, I'd remove those first before testing again.

And, what other mods do you have installed? I'd be curious if there was a common theme (it's how we identified the repeating patrol grid problem which had been attributed as an SH3Cmdr bug and which turned out to be nothing related to SH3Cmdr).

What happens if you just load the game the "conventional" way, and not via SH3Cmdr?

@Herr Karl: The "not enough crew" message is definitely not SH3Cmdr related. What mods are you running?

Originally Posted by Herr Karl

Funny that we are having strange or irrelevant messages about the same compartment. I'm sure JS will know whats up.

Well, no, apart from assuring users that the stock SH3Cmdr makes *no* adjustments to this aspect of the game. Because of the way SH3Cmdr works, it has quite often had the finger pointed at it for problems which in the end are totally unrelated to it. I suspect that, unless the problem is somehow related to Hemisent's Thermal Layers addition (and I think that is grasping at straws), the problem rests with another one of the recently released mods that *does* tinker with the sub compartments, hence the need to know what mods affected users are running.

[Skubber]

I'm still pretty sure it is Commander that is causing this.

Diagnosis:

- Rolled back Commander, then restarted the game without it. No weird message.
- Renamed "Randomized events" to "Randomized events off"
Started with Commander. The weird message reappeared. I don't think this file is causing the problem.
- The ONLY thing I changed to my setup (other than gramophone files) before this error occurred was upgrading to the latest release of Commander.

This message appears every time I start using Commander, so I can verify it occurs every time under 2.5.


I am running IUb 1.01 (Haven't got around to the newer version yet.) IUb 1.01 commands patch. Heavy harbor traffic option.

I have also made a number of "tweaks" - but as I said, these were all running fine under the earlier version of commander.

--- I looked at the Commander files, and I agree, this is odd. I don't see anything in there that should be causing this, and yet it really appears to be the case that one of the files in the new Commander release is responsible.

[Skubber]

Another thought: Could it be that Commander rewrote something that the IUb 1.01 commands patch was meant to fix?

If so, that would mean I just need to be running with the latest IUb.

[JScones]

Well, only one other possibility - rename Miscellaneous.cfg and try again. Perhaps the crush depth changes are affecting it (now we are really scraping the barrel).

If it still fails, I can't possibly see how the cause could be with SH3Cmdr. Apart from the Thermal Layers and Crush Depth changes, R2.5 makes no gameplay changes that R2.4 didn't make. Besides, this wouldn't be the first time that SH3Cmdr has copped the blame for something that had nothing to do with it, even though circumstances may have suggested otherwise (ie NULL/repeating patrol grids and crew config errors which, despite some users very quickly pointing the finger strongly at SH3Cmdr, were all traced back to other specific mods).

[HW3]

Just for information purposes, I am running SHIII Commander 2.5 and it is working just fine. I am running GW/NYGM TW/Enhanced Unified Campaign, Fubar's Sub Crew, and a couple of other small mods.

[JScones]

Thanks HW3, that actually does help. I would be keen to know what mods players with the problem are running. It's how we've tracked down the cause of problems before. So far we've 1 IUB1.01 with problems, 1 GW/TW without.

[HW3]

I just checked to make sure what all mods I have in besides the ones I already posted. I have the NYGM TW Mod v1.03 Terrain Add-In, Tankeriv's sea floor mod for 64MB cards, and Contact Marker C2 Merchant.

[U-Bones]

Everytime I have seen equipment destroyed at startup, it has been part of the games platform/date/availability sanity check. In other words, are you sure that that particular piece of equipment is available for that particular submarine, on that particular date ? If either the sub or the equipment say no, the game will destroy the equipment. This may or may not be the case here, but...

[JScones]

Originally Posted by U-Bones

Everytime I have seen equipment destroyed at startup, it has been part of the games platform/date/availability sanity check. In other words, are you sure that that particular piece of equipment is available for that particular submarine, on that particular date ? If either the sub or the equipment say no, the game will destroy the equipment. This may or may not be the case here, but...

That's actually good to know. Thanks.

[thyro]

Originally Posted by Skubber

I recently installed the latest Commander 2.5, and everything is working great, but....

Everytime I load up a new game I get the message from the crew: "starboard diesel engine destroyed, sir!"

The engine isn't destroyed. There's no damage. I just get this message.
And then afterwards the game operates normally.

I get the message if I begin a new patrol from port, or if I load up a game mid-patrol from a save.

What do you think is going on?

(Followed commander installation instructions.) Did a rollback. Uninstalled old Commmander, installed new version.)

I reported this feature on the release annuncement thread ( http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50953 ), my post is the 14th in that list.

My post end-up ignored by the author of SH3commander.

I know that someone is writing a new mod to sabotage the subs everytime that a mission starts and once I saw this message I though that that sabotage mod was included on SH3commander.

Anyway, after replay few mission starts I found that dispite that message and destroyed equipment showing up in the "Crew/Damage Management" the equipment is fully operational.

Losing diesel engines is just one of the messages, but then radar, sonar, etc will follow in other missions or game reloads... so it seem a bit random... (again I wonder if sabotage mod was included in SH3commander... and if it was included then is not working properly)


This feature was introduced by SH3commander (in my case I've installed it on top of GW).

Despite that anoying message SH3commander and GW seem to coexist happy.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by thyro

I reported this feature on the release annuncement thread ( http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50953 ), my post is the 14th in that list.

My post end-up ignored by the author of SH3commander.

Yes, your well detailed and researched comments were most helpful.

Originally Posted by thyro

I know that someone is writing a new mod to sabotage the subs everytime that a mission starts and once I saw this message I though that that sabotage mod was included on SH3commander.

Anyway, after replay few mission starts I found that dispite that message and destroyed equipment showing up in the "Crew/Damage Management" the equipment is fully operational.

Losing diesel engines is just one of the messages, but then radar, sonar, etc will follow in other missions or game reloads... so it seem a bit random... (again I wonder if sabotage mod was included in SH3commander... and if it was included then is not working properly)

There is no sabotage mod in SH3Cmdr. The only likely change left is the crush depth mod - and I have outlined how to test this above.

Originally Posted by thyro

This feature was introduced by SH3commander (in my case I've installed it on top of GW).

Sigh. I love fault finding experts that thoroughly research before jumping to conclusions - did you try the crush depth test I posted above? Have you considered U-Bones comments above? Have you tried with the correct u-boat availability dates option turned on and with it turned off? Does it happen everytime? Sometimes? With every sub type? With only some sub types? Have you actually undertaken *any* conclusive tests to pinpoint the problem? If you want my attention, you have to help diagnose and provide some leads! This problem hasn't been identified by me or at least five others in testing...so help out, rather than waste time!

@Skubber: I'm all ears if you find any leads.

[thyro]

Originally Posted by JScones

There is no sabotage mod in SH3Cmdr. The only likely change left, which I have mentioned above, is to remove the crush depth changes from "Miscellaneous.cfg".

Sigh. I love fault finding experts that thoroughly research before jumping to conclusions - did you try the crush depth test I posted above? Have you considered U-Bones comments above? Have you tried with the correct u-boat availability dates option turned on and with it turned off? Does it happen everytime? Sometimes? With every sub type? With only some sub types? Have you actually undertaken *any* conclusive tests to pinpoint the problem? If you want my attention, you have to help diagnose and provide some leads! This problem hasn't been identified by me or at least five others in testing...so help out, rather than blamestorm!

m8 ... No blamestorm thinking from this side... just reporting an issue which I though that would be useful.

Odd it seem random which lead to believe that sabotage mod was introduced (thanks for your confirmation that is not the case).

Well I'm not a SH3 expert and far from it. I like play this game and I got no knowledge if its inside...

Have you considered U-Bones comments above?
Yes! But I don't know how to check that. I'm using GW timeline and I haven't made any changes to files.

With every sub type? With only some sub types?
The subs that I used and had this issues were VIIC, IXA and now IXD. I cant say from earlier subs because I didn't use SH3C at that time. The issue seem to start after SH3C installation for me from VIIC.

Like I mentioned in my previous post, other missleading messages are radar, hydrophone and the last one is sonar destroyed. These last ones are happening at random on IXD2. So isn't just diesel engines.

Does it happen everytime?
this allways ocurr when I start a new mission or I load the game. And the message can vary from diesel engine to one of the aboves, even when I load the same saved game (seem random message).

did you try the crush depth test I posted above?
I suppose that your are mentioning miscellaneous.cfg file. Well I just did a search under data directory and I cant't find it.

So I now feel tempted to reinstall SH3C to see if that makes a change.

as note if this helps at all: I'm using GW with SH3C on top and no manual changes to files either other mods installed.

Cheers