Battle of Camperdown

[Linton]

I know it is a bit early but I shall be raising a glass of Plymouth or three in October to the Royal Navy's victory over the Dutch in 1797.It was one of the few naval victories of the period that Nelson was not involved with as the RN was fielding its'B team

[TLAM Strike]

And I shall raise a glass in salute to the Dutch who put the RN in its place and sent them running at the Four Days Battle in June of 1666!

And to the French and "Colonials" who cut off the Redcoats from resupply at the Battle of the Chesapeake in 1781 and changed the world!

Michiel de Ruyter and Comte de Grasse where ever you are may you continue rock on!

[Linton]

I think any dutchman can win when he has 86 ships and the British just over fifty.We also won the battle of Lowestoft!![url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Days_Battle
As to the war of Independence the colonies needed the help of the french to win and where did it get the latter?An invitation to the scaffold less than ten years later as the french state was bankrupt financially and morally

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Cornwallis

I think any dutchman can win when he has 86 ships and the British just over fifty.

You boys had 150 ships at Jutland and the Germans only 100 yet they mopped the floor with you when it came down to the actual fighting. :P

Lets not forget when the IJN jumped the Prince of Wales and Repulse. Or when they ran wild in the Indian Ocean sinking everything British including one of your carriers while its pilots were all busy having tea time or something. The Kido Butai comes for you and you run the Kido Butai comes for the US and we fight (and win!)

As to the war of Independence the colonies needed the help of the french to win and where did it get the latter?An invitation to the scaffold less than ten years later as the french state was bankrupt financially and morally

The United States of America accepts no responsibility for the failures of the French Government. The point still stands; you were defeated by the French much to your eternal humiliation. :P

[Khayman]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

You boys had 150 ships at Jutland and the Germans only 100 yet they mopped the floor with you when it came down to the actual fighting. :P

Ah, so The Germans didn't turn tail and run when they realised the Grand Fleet was not only at sea but also engaging them. I guess if they mopped the floor then the High Seas Fleet was now safe to sortie whenever they wanted after Jutland

I'd take issue with the French being a major factor in the loss of the American colonies. From what I've read they hardly did a thing. They were asked by US Commanders to help, but they frequently either refused and sailed home or to the Caribbean. Getting them to do something helpfull was like pulling teeth.

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

And I shall raise a glass in salute to the Dutch who put the RN in its place and sent them running at the Four Days Battle in June of 1666!

And to the French and "Colonials" who cut off the Redcoats from resupply at the Battle of the Chesapeake in 1781 and changed the world!

Michiel de Ruyter and Comte de Grasse where ever you are may you continue rock on!

For your relentless efforts to promote the international statute of Holland and its maritime capabillity, you should be recommended as Honorary Dutch Naval Person!

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Khayman

Ah, so The Germans didn't turn tail and run when they realised the Grand Fleet was not only at sea but also engaging them. I guess if they mopped the floor then the High Seas Fleet was now safe to sortie whenever they wanted after Jutland

They won the day (and proved the British don't know how to use Battlecruisers- a lesson they never learned) not my fault they didn’t act on it.

I'd take issue with the French being a major factor in the loss of the American colonies. From what I've read they hardly did a thing. They were asked by US Commanders to help, but they frequently either refused and sailed home or to the Caribbean. Getting them to do something helpful was like pulling teeth.

Did you know they gave us Colonials basics like Bayonets when we had none? Although only a few fought on American soil (La Fayette, Rochambeau and his troops) they did provide some critical aid at the most important time. French and Spanish (and Dutch) forced the British to fight a lot of other wars at the same time taking the heat off us. The Spanish besieged Gibraltar for three years but were defeated. The Dutch took a beating for trading openly with the Colonials. The sacrifice of this people were very important to us Americans gaining freedom even if some don’t see it.

The United Republic (The Netherlands old name) was also the first country to salute the American Flag. (I think that at one point a few decades before they refused to salute a ship flying the British Flag, then the British declared war on them! )

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

... The United Republic (The Netherlands old name) was also the first country to salute the American Flag. (I think that at one point a few decades before they refused to salute a ship flying the British Flag, then the British declared war on them! )

Actually the name was Republiek der Zeeven Vereenigde Neederlanden, which is, litterally translated, Republic of the Seven United Netherlands.

The incident you are referring to was in the first half of the XVIth Century. Britain, being an island, considered the surrounding seas as her possesion and demanded that any ship - but it was aimed at Dutch ships - therefor should salute the British flag.
Our Republic had as her policy the "Free Seas" and asked Hugo Grotius the find a legal basis for that in Natural Law - which he consequently did. Dutch ships were ordered not to salute British ships at sea. British ships were ordered to shoot at any ship that did not properly accept British souvereignity of the seas.
The result was - as could be expected - a war with Britain, the first one (I think) of four.
Final score: 2-2.


By the way, the name of this thread should have been: Battle of Kamperduin (or Camperdune).

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Abraham

Actually the name was Republiek der Zeeven Vereenigde Neederlanden, which is, litterally translated, Republic of the Seven United Netherlands.

Oh... well that’s easier to write than 'United Republic'! Maybe you should change the name from The Netherlands to 'The Dutch United Republic of the Netherlands that included Holland and some other places' just to cover all your bases. The DURNTIHSOP (Darn This, Oops) for short. :P

By the way, the name of this thread should have been: Battle of Kamperduin (or Camperdune).

That’s why you got the Modding Cap. Dutch-a-fy it!

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Oh... well that’s easier to write than 'United Republic'! Maybe you should change the name from The Netherlands to 'The Dutch United Republic of the Netherlands that included Holland and some other places' just to cover all your bases. The DURNTIHSOP (Darn This, Oops) for short. :P

Actually we abbreviated it: De Zeeven Provinciën (The Seven Provinces), everybody in the world knew what that ment. It was also by the way the name of Adm. De Ruyters flagship during the Third British War.

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

That’s why you got the Modding Cap. Dutch-a-fy it!

I certainly considered it and even contacted Neal about it, but since the British language is not a forum member herself it is not in breach of forum regulations.
And you know how much I adhere to them...

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Abraham

Actually we abbreviated it: De Zeeven Provinciën (The Seven Provinces), everybody in the world knew what that ment. It was also by the way the name of Adm. De Ruyters flagship during the Third British War.

Hmmm I was just reading a little about him and saw he was given the rank of 'Lieutenant-Admiral-General' no long before his death. Again just like with their country's name(s) the Dutch do their best to confuse us...

...but since the British language is not a forum member...

Forum member heck, since when is there a British language at all! :hmm: :rotfl:

I wonder if English and British is as confusing to the Dutch as Holland and The Netherlands is to us… :hmm:

[Linton]

Tlam you seem to have a deep seated dislike of the British and I was just wondering why?I have never heard anybody say "I speak British".We speak english over here ,plus welsh,gaelic, cornish and in some schools over 42 other languages!Your responses are those of a dumb bomb not a precision weapon that your name suggests.Our attitude to our colonial cousins is to divide them into two groups-New Yorkers and the rest.
I have called this thread the anglicised name as the winner usually gets to choose.

[Abraham]

I'll raise a whole bottle (or two) for De Ruyter's Tocht naar Chatham (Raid on Chatham).
This was an amphibious raid on the docks of the RN'sl base along the river Thames and the first time that Marines (trained Naval soldiers) were used. This makes the Dutch Korps Mariniers the oldest marine force in the world.
Warfs and shipyards were burned, the British Flagship (Royal James I think it was) was taken as a prise and London was in panick.
This was the only serious assault of foreign troops into Britain since William the Conqueror.

Cheers

And sorry for using the phrase: British language. I was thaught English at school. But well, I'm just a bloody foreigner...

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Cornwallis

Tlam you seem to have a deep seated dislike of the British and I was just wondering why?

I got nothing against the British I just don't like the undefeated better than everyone else attitude when it comes to the Royal Navy. And for the record I'm part English.

Your responses are those of a dumb bomb not a precision weapon that your name suggests.

Your forgetting the TLAM-N.

[Linton]

Spell checker in operation :taught-to teach.
The raid up the Thames was audacious,but so was capturing the silver fleet of the Spanish in Cuba.However listing all the Royal Navy's triumphs would make spam look like a mere canape!