Snorkel visibility - again...

xrvjorn · 03-26-06, 10:17 AM

Searching the forum for snorkel visibility, I've found some threads about a mod that decreases it. There are also later threads about using periscope depth or a deeper snorkel depth when snorkling.

Is the visibility still an issue when the snorkel is just above the waves, or was it only so if you used SH3's original snorkel depths?

VonHelsching · 03-26-06, 11:40 AM

It is definitly still an issue, esp. in 1944 and 1945. The snorkel still attrracts planes like flies. When you have a 3 cm and a 3 mm radar against you, there is little room in getting away.

Tonnage_Ace · 03-26-06, 08:04 PM

I forget whose mod I used but it fixed this issue immensely. They figured that it wasn't the radar which was detecting your snorkel but their vision. I was able to snorkel in a XXI at 16m with no problems, except when an airplane just happened to be right on top of you, which was very realistic.

I'd be very interested to find out if GW has this mod implemented...

VonHelsching · 03-26-06, 11:26 PM

I think it was called Jungmann's Snorkel Fix. In my post I was referring to what happens after the application of the fix...

Collie · 03-27-06, 07:47 AM

I have installed NYGM 1.03 and the snorkell problem went away.

I'm currently heading up the English Channel in late 1944 snorkelling all the way and it's as quiet as a graveyard. I'm heading towards Bergen but will pop into Dover to see what's happening...

So for me snorkelling at the proper depth and using NYGM it seems to be fairly accurate

VonHelsching · 03-27-06, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrvjorn

But is the visibility fix still useful/required when you're snorkeling as deep as possible? All threads I found about snorkel fixes predates the threads that tell you not to use the stock snorkel depth.

I googled into http://www.uboataces.com/snorkel.shtml where it says that radar detected snorkels at about 5 km, whereas a surfaced boat was detected at about 10 km.

The visibility fix is both useful and required. I think it is incorporated in the two big modpackes NYGM and GW. Also I have the impression that the air bases and patrols were also tweaked in these mods (It's best someone from the modpack teams to answer that).

The default snorkeldepth was known as problematic and was assessed either by manual methods in every mission or by individual mods. This holds true especially for IXD/2. Check this:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=48560

and for the XXI:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=47637

Kpt. Lehmann · 03-27-06, 09:50 AM

GW does include the snorkel fix relative to being too easily detected by enemy radar.

HW3 · 03-27-06, 12:07 PM

For those that want it, Jungman's SensorPak mod is now available at Terrapin's site.

xrvjorn · 03-28-06, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VonHelsching

The visibility fix is both useful and required.

Thx, that's what I was wondering. I've got the snorkel depth fix from your battery, range and D2 torp fixes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HW3

For those that want it, Jungman's SensorPak mod is now available at Terrapin's site.

Found it! I assume that AI_Sensors.dat it the file I need if I don't want the other stuff in the mod. There was something to improve the Metox too, but googling and searching this forum leads me to beleive that the Metox range was just as bad IRL as in game.

VonHelsching · 03-28-06, 04:54 PM

Just be careful with the zip_within_the_zip. You can get easily confused. Read the two readmes carefully. The one is just the snorkel, and the other includes a sonar DC fix. What mods do you have installed? The .zon file is also used by Advanced Holywood Damage.

I cannot say that I'm happy with that fix, BTW. I have the gut feeling that there is room for improvement...
I don't know wht has been done with the latest big modpacks, though (IuB, GW, NYGM).

Ducimus · 03-28-06, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VonHelsching

It is definitly still an issue, esp. in 1944 and 1945. The snorkel still attrracts planes like flies. When you have a 3 cm and a 3 mm radar against you, there is little room in getting away.

its the highest version of airborne radar tahts the killer. It has a min hight of like 0.03 if i remember right. (acutally theres two setting that effect min height, one is zeroed out the other is 0.03)

This isn't addressed either by oversight or by design in jungmans snorkel fix mod. Needless to say, the day i didnt have that snorke up so much as 0.05 meters (sputtering under the surface betweeen waves) and a sunderland dropped me out of TC with an ashcan on my wintergarden after only 2 hours snorkeling , i prompty modded that radar.

Ducimus · 03-30-06, 02:45 PM

Hell, i even have my game set to where it will automatically pause when an aircraft is detected. Nice mechanic when im in High TC enroute to patrol area, ill go do somethign else. If a its a plane, the game pauses and ill deal with it then. Encoutnering a warship randomly is highly unlikely so i normally dont worry about it.

But even with this type of setup, if the plane isnt detected, my TC wont drop either. So,.... KABOOM, boat is a big mess and i start saying alot of four letter explanitives.

Kpt. Lehmann · 03-30-06, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonnage_Ace

I forget whose mod I used but it fixed this issue immensely. They figured that it wasn't the radar which was detecting your snorkel but their vision. I was able to snorkel in a XXI at 16m with no problems, except when an airplane just happened to be right on top of you, which was very realistic.

I'd be very interested to find out if GW has this mod implemented...

GW does indeed include Jungman's snorkel fix relating to detection. Though it may not be a cure-all it certainly helps.

Ducimus · 03-30-06, 06:37 PM

The published snorkel fix, i beleive only makes the AI's vision have a minimum height of 1 meter. Its default is 0. The game makes no differentioin between a fully surfaced sub and only 1 meter of snorkel. AI detection is rather boolean in this regard.

I dont think it addressed radar, and for the most part there isnt much of a reason to. Some of the earlier radar models the AI uses has a minsurface heigh of like... 1.5 to nearly 2 meters (i forget the exact number), so for the most part, radar doesnt become too much of an issue....... save one radar model with its min surface height of 0.03.

From my experience, late war, with that radar at its default value, your better of recharging your batteries on the surface then snorkeling, simply because you have a better chance to see the bastard coming. Once your submerged your totally blind to him. Even leaving the observation scope up while snorkeling doesnt always give you enough of (if any) warning that your about to get bombed.

mike_espo · 03-30-06, 08:39 PM

Just finished a home made mission testing the IX boats. After sinking an escort with the G7es acoustic torpedo

. Could not believe it!!

Anyway, Then went snorkeling using 512x TC, no problems at all, Covered 1000miles...this in the Area just west of Portugal in spring 1944. Only when I surfaced at night did I finally detect aircraft. I did get the snorkel and Btty fix though :hmm:

Incidentally, I did not know that you could send and pick up radio signals while at snorkel depth...which for the IXC was 14m.

03-26-06, 10:17 AM	#1
xrvjorn Mate Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 51 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Snorkel visibility - again... Searching the forum for snorkel visibility, I've found some threads about a mod that decreases it. There are also later threads about using periscope depth or a deeper snorkel depth when snorkling. Is the visibility still an issue when the snorkel is just above the waves, or was it only so if you used SH3's original snorkel depths?

03-27-06, 09:50 AM	#7
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 6,992 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	GW does include the snorkel fix relative to being too easily detected by enemy radar. __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

03-27-06, 12:07 PM	#8
HW3 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gresham Oregon Posts: 6,574 Downloads: 458 Uploads: 0	For those that want it, Jungman's SensorPak mod is now available at Terrapin's site. __________________ "Some ships are designed to sink...others require our assistance." Nathan Zelk

03-26-06, 11:40 AM	#2
VonHelsching Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 1,025 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It is definitly still an issue, esp. in 1944 and 1945. The snorkel still attrracts planes like flies. When you have a 3 cm and a 3 mm radar against you, there is little room in getting away.

03-26-06, 08:04 PM	#3
Tonnage_Ace XO Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 411 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I forget whose mod I used but it fixed this issue immensely. They figured that it wasn't the radar which was detecting your snorkel but their vision. I was able to snorkel in a XXI at 16m with no problems, except when an airplane just happened to be right on top of you, which was very realistic. I'd be very interested to find out if GW has this mod implemented...

03-26-06, 11:26 PM	#4
VonHelsching Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 1,025 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think it was called Jungmann's Snorkel Fix. In my post I was referring to what happens after the application of the fix...

03-27-06, 07:47 AM	#5
Collie Watch Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 20 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I have installed NYGM 1.03 and the snorkell problem went away. I'm currently heading up the English Channel in late 1944 snorkelling all the way and it's as quiet as a graveyard. I'm heading towards Bergen but will pop into Dover to see what's happening... So for me snorkelling at the proper depth and using NYGM it seems to be fairly accurate

03-28-06, 04:54 PM	#10
VonHelsching Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 1,025 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Just be careful with the zip_within_the_zip. You can get easily confused. Read the two readmes carefully. The one is just the snorkel, and the other includes a sonar DC fix. What mods do you have installed? The .zon file is also used by Advanced Holywood Damage. I cannot say that I'm happy with that fix, BTW. I have the gut feeling that there is room for improvement... I don't know wht has been done with the latest big modpacks, though (IuB, GW, NYGM).

03-30-06, 02:45 PM	#12
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Hell, i even have my game set to where it will automatically pause when an aircraft is detected. Nice mechanic when im in High TC enroute to patrol area, ill go do somethign else. If a its a plane, the game pauses and ill deal with it then. Encoutnering a warship randomly is highly unlikely so i normally dont worry about it. But even with this type of setup, if the plane isnt detected, my TC wont drop either. So,.... KABOOM, boat is a big mess and i start saying alot of four letter explanitives.

03-30-06, 06:37 PM	#14
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	The published snorkel fix, i beleive only makes the AI's vision have a minimum height of 1 meter. Its default is 0. The game makes no differentioin between a fully surfaced sub and only 1 meter of snorkel. AI detection is rather boolean in this regard. I dont think it addressed radar, and for the most part there isnt much of a reason to. Some of the earlier radar models the AI uses has a minsurface heigh of like... 1.5 to nearly 2 meters (i forget the exact number), so for the most part, radar doesnt become too much of an issue....... save one radar model with its min surface height of 0.03. From my experience, late war, with that radar at its default value, your better of recharging your batteries on the surface then snorkeling, simply because you have a better chance to see the bastard coming. Once your submerged your totally blind to him. Even leaving the observation scope up while snorkeling doesnt always give you enough of (if any) warning that your about to get bombed.

03-30-06, 08:39 PM	#15
mike_espo Sonar Guy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Chicago, USA Posts: 396 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	Just finished a home made mission testing the IX boats. After sinking an escort with the G7es acoustic torpedo . Could not believe it!! Anyway, Then went snorkeling using 512x TC, no problems at all, Covered 1000miles...this in the Area just west of Portugal in spring 1944. Only when I surfaced at night did I finally detect aircraft. I did get the snorkel and Btty fix though :hmm: Incidentally, I did not know that you could send and pick up radio signals while at snorkel depth...which for the IXC was 14m.