What do you do with Kleiner Frachters

Einsamer Wolf · 03-03-06, 03:06 PM

They do not seem worth a torpedo. If the weather is poor, I often just turn around, to save my torpedoes. If the weather is fair, I used to blow the ballast tanks, go to maximum speed, and nail it with my deck gun. On my last mission though, two different engagements with my deck gun
led to almost 30% damage to the hull.
So what do you do? Are they worth a torpedo? Seems foolhardy now to try and use my deck gun.

EW

XXi · 03-03-06, 03:14 PM

I tend to use my deck gun, in most cases aided by the Flak - it does not much damage, but still SOME. And if I see airgraft I make a crash dive anyway...

In some cases though I use torpedoes. Worthy or not, I tend to attack any enemy vessel.

Heibges · 03-03-06, 03:16 PM

That is the same dilemna kaleuns were faced with. Ammunition allocation per target, is a prime skill of all combat vehicle commanders whether uboat captains or tank commanders.

The Uboat Commanders Handbook advices "it is better to destroy little than damage much", and that it is advisable to fire at least 2 torpedoes at every target.

If you look at it this way, with a Type VII using only torpedoes you should be able to sink a maximum of 7 ships. So now on patrol you will want to make sure you fire at the 7 juiciest targets, and this greatly inceases the realism of the game.

Now marry this up with hydrophone usage from Uboat Commanders Handbook, and your careers will look like those from history.

I feel the same way as XXI. But if I fire at that small merchant, and can't use the deckgun, I will fire 2 torpedoes at it to make sure I hit it and sink it. This greatly increases my pleasure when I finally stumble across a convoy with 5 tankers!

Crash Dive · 03-03-06, 03:20 PM

Every enemy ship carring cargo to England must be sunk.

malcymalc · 03-03-06, 06:52 PM

I might pass on a trawler but anything bigger gets a torpedo - after the first few months of the war just about anything that floats has a gun mounted on it so surface attacks are risky.

Also I am playing with the NYGM mods so ship sightings are rare enough that you do not want to let one pass by just because your target is less than 2,000 tons - I am looking forward to the new NYGM supermod so I can start a new career.

In a convoy I obviously target the biggest thing afloat within range.

Regards
Malcolm

Captain Affenschwanz · 03-03-06, 07:51 PM

I'm on my 21st patrol and at this point I let the smaller ships pass unmolested. In my opinion, they're not worth the price of a fish. Anything else gets two fish aimed at the fuel bunker. Some, I'll admit, get a third... I figure one large merchant sunk with two fish yields more tonnage than a fish apiece into two smaller ships.

As far as my deck gun, I'm ready to ditch it. Those merchants are armed these days and some of their gun crews are pretty good! If I can hit them, they can probably hit me and a few have... One time I lost both periscopes and my radio antenna from a single shell fired from a distance of about 2500 Meters by a coastal merchant. I turned back for repairs and a severe reprimand.

Einsamer Wolf · 03-03-06, 08:47 PM

I have never had to use two torpedoes for a small merchant. They are armed and accurate however. So I suppose it is best to use one torpedo. It seems that the gun is always in the back, so perhaps if you blow the blast tanks heading straight for the bow at 2000m and closing, you can still use the deck gun--when weather permits. This game shows what limited use the deck gun was.
Another disadvantage to the deck gun is that you have to emerge. I am in late 42. Pretty soon, the air cover will be mericless.

EW

MarshalLaw · 03-03-06, 08:57 PM

After 1942 the deck gun is almost useless . Even small merchants have at least 1 decent size deck gun to fire back at you. As for the small ships I usually fire only 1 torpedo. 90% of the time a Magnetic shot will sink them with no problem. Sometimes it takes 2 but not often.

As some of the other mates here said tonage is tonage, get what you can get.

As for that air cover...... the later it gets in the war, the thicker they become. GET THAT SNORKEL.

andy_311 · 03-03-06, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Einsamer Wolf

I have never had to use two torpedoes for a small merchant. They are armed and accurate however. So I suppose it is best to use one torpedo. It seems that the gun is always in the back, so perhaps if you blow the blast tanks heading straight for the bow at 2000m and closing, you can still use the deck gun--when weather permits. This game shows what limited use the deck gun was.
Another disadvantage to the deck gun is that you have to emerge. I am in late 42. Pretty soon, the air cover will be mericless.

EW

Belive me airpower in late 42 to end of war is hell in my last career I ran out of AA ammo I expended more than 4000 rounds for 4 planes and in shallow waters I would rather shoot it out than dive.
and face certain death

XXi · 03-03-06, 09:35 PM

I use only one torpedo for a small merchant, but still I try to get them. I tend to use deck gun though.

Of course there`s a risk of firing torpedoes at small merchant only to meet tankers when your tubes are empty... but that`s the risk. And I don`t care so much for it since I noticed that historically most patrols ended with moderate results , like one or two single merchants for total 10,000 BRT. Therefore moderate results seem to be OK for me.

So I don`t feel I HAVE to end every patrol in every carreer with, say, 35,000 or 50,000 BRT.

Funny thing by the way - I`m sure that all the players active here sank altogether more vessels in game than there were destroyed in the real BOA.

Einsamer Wolf · 03-04-06, 01:59 AM

The last mission and this one had C2 straggling or "auf der Stelle." And the weather just happened to be pristine. I cruised 1500m out, turned aroumd, blew ballast tanks heading straing for the bow at a five degree angle. The crippled vessel could only fire two or three shots. So the deck gun does have some value.
If you are approaching a Kuestenschiff of Kleiner Frachter for a deck gun attack, what is the best way? I have thought of two separate methods. One is to head for the target straight on. The problem with this is that the bow is not an easy target, and is hardly the soft spot of a ship. Morever, unlike a large cargo vessel, these smaller vessels are maneuverable. The captain will turn drastically to get his gun in position.
The other approach is to head for the target at a 90 degree angle, either staying surfaced the whole time, or blowing the ballast tanks at 1500m. This way, you give the deck gun crew a nice, long view of the hull. And you stay skinny for incoming shots.
Not sure which is the best. One thing I do is watch the deck gun crew fire from my UZO. I continually shift the headign back and forth five or ten degrees, making it harder for the objective to score a direct hit.

EW

uhu · 03-04-06, 05:54 AM

Since I use NYGM damage mod, I love Kleiner Frachters! They mostly sink with 1 torp, and there will be not the cause, where you pump several torps in a ship, and it don't sinks. Sometimes, 1 torp is not enough, but if the weather is good, I can sink it with the gun.

When the Kleiner Frachter have also gun...well, I don't know, maybe it is possible, to destroy it with the first 1-2 shot?

03-03-06, 03:06 PM	#1
Einsamer Wolf Watch Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 30 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	What do you do with Kleiner Frachters They do not seem worth a torpedo. If the weather is poor, I often just turn around, to save my torpedoes. If the weather is fair, I used to blow the ballast tanks, go to maximum speed, and nail it with my deck gun. On my last mission though, two different engagements with my deck gun led to almost 30% damage to the hull. So what do you do? Are they worth a torpedo? Seems foolhardy now to try and use my deck gun. EW

03-03-06, 03:14 PM	#2
XXi Ensign Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Warsaw, Poland / Nagoya, Japan Posts: 227 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	I tend to use my deck gun, in most cases aided by the Flak - it does not much damage, but still SOME. And if I see airgraft I make a crash dive anyway... In some cases though I use torpedoes. Worthy or not, I tend to attack any enemy vessel. __________________ lasciate ogni speranza... voi, chi entrate

03-03-06, 03:16 PM	#3
Heibges Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,633 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	That is the same dilemna kaleuns were faced with. Ammunition allocation per target, is a prime skill of all combat vehicle commanders whether uboat captains or tank commanders. The Uboat Commanders Handbook advices "it is better to destroy little than damage much", and that it is advisable to fire at least 2 torpedoes at every target. If you look at it this way, with a Type VII using only torpedoes you should be able to sink a maximum of 7 ships. So now on patrol you will want to make sure you fire at the 7 juiciest targets, and this greatly inceases the realism of the game. Now marry this up with hydrophone usage from Uboat Commanders Handbook, and your careers will look like those from history. I feel the same way as XXI. But if I fire at that small merchant, and can't use the deckgun, I will fire 2 torpedoes at it to make sure I hit it and sink it. This greatly increases my pleasure when I finally stumble across a convoy with 5 tankers! __________________ U.Kdt.Hdb B. I. 28) This possibility of using the hydrophone to help in detecting surface ships should, however, be restricted to those cases where the submarine is unavoidably compelled to stay below the surface. http://www.hackworth.com/

03-03-06, 03:20 PM	#4
Crash Dive Electrician's Mate Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: San Diego, Ca. Posts: 136 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Every enemy ship carring cargo to England must be sunk. __________________ \"The sixth electric fish went to her midships to break the ship\'s back and set her afire.\" O\'Kane

03-03-06, 07:51 PM	#6
Captain Affenschwanz Watch Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cape Cod Massachusetts USA Posts: 25 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm on my 21st patrol and at this point I let the smaller ships pass unmolested. In my opinion, they're not worth the price of a fish. Anything else gets two fish aimed at the fuel bunker. Some, I'll admit, get a third... I figure one large merchant sunk with two fish yields more tonnage than a fish apiece into two smaller ships. As far as my deck gun, I'm ready to ditch it. Those merchants are armed these days and some of their gun crews are pretty good! If I can hit them, they can probably hit me and a few have... One time I lost both periscopes and my radio antenna from a single shell fired from a distance of about 2500 Meters by a coastal merchant. I turned back for repairs and a severe reprimand. __________________ A kill is a kill.

03-03-06, 06:52 PM	#5
malcymalc Bosun Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 64 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I might pass on a trawler but anything bigger gets a torpedo - after the first few months of the war just about anything that floats has a gun mounted on it so surface attacks are risky. Also I am playing with the NYGM mods so ship sightings are rare enough that you do not want to let one pass by just because your target is less than 2,000 tons - I am looking forward to the new NYGM supermod so I can start a new career. In a convoy I obviously target the biggest thing afloat within range. Regards Malcolm

03-03-06, 08:47 PM	#7
Einsamer Wolf Watch Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 30 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I have never had to use two torpedoes for a small merchant. They are armed and accurate however. So I suppose it is best to use one torpedo. It seems that the gun is always in the back, so perhaps if you blow the blast tanks heading straight for the bow at 2000m and closing, you can still use the deck gun--when weather permits. This game shows what limited use the deck gun was. Another disadvantage to the deck gun is that you have to emerge. I am in late 42. Pretty soon, the air cover will be mericless. EW

03-03-06, 08:57 PM	#8
MarshalLaw Navy Dude Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando Fla USA Posts: 174 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	After 1942 the deck gun is almost useless . Even small merchants have at least 1 decent size deck gun to fire back at you. As for the small ships I usually fire only 1 torpedo. 90% of the time a Magnetic shot will sink them with no problem. Sometimes it takes 2 but not often. As some of the other mates here said tonage is tonage, get what you can get. As for that air cover...... the later it gets in the war, the thicker they become. GET THAT SNORKEL.

03-03-06, 09:35 PM	#10
XXi Ensign Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Warsaw, Poland / Nagoya, Japan Posts: 227 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	I use only one torpedo for a small merchant, but still I try to get them. I tend to use deck gun though. Of course there`s a risk of firing torpedoes at small merchant only to meet tankers when your tubes are empty... but that`s the risk. And I don`t care so much for it since I noticed that historically most patrols ended with moderate results , like one or two single merchants for total 10,000 BRT. Therefore moderate results seem to be OK for me. So I don`t feel I HAVE to end every patrol in every carreer with, say, 35,000 or 50,000 BRT. Funny thing by the way - I`m sure that all the players active here sank altogether more vessels in game than there were destroyed in the real BOA. __________________ lasciate ogni speranza... voi, chi entrate

03-04-06, 01:59 AM	#11
Einsamer Wolf Watch Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 30 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The last mission and this one had C2 straggling or "auf der Stelle." And the weather just happened to be pristine. I cruised 1500m out, turned aroumd, blew ballast tanks heading straing for the bow at a five degree angle. The crippled vessel could only fire two or three shots. So the deck gun does have some value. If you are approaching a Kuestenschiff of Kleiner Frachter for a deck gun attack, what is the best way? I have thought of two separate methods. One is to head for the target straight on. The problem with this is that the bow is not an easy target, and is hardly the soft spot of a ship. Morever, unlike a large cargo vessel, these smaller vessels are maneuverable. The captain will turn drastically to get his gun in position. The other approach is to head for the target at a 90 degree angle, either staying surfaced the whole time, or blowing the ballast tanks at 1500m. This way, you give the deck gun crew a nice, long view of the hull. And you stay skinny for incoming shots. Not sure which is the best. One thing I do is watch the deck gun crew fire from my UZO. I continually shift the headign back and forth five or ten degrees, making it harder for the objective to score a direct hit. EW

03-04-06, 05:54 AM	#12
uhu Shore leave Join Date: May 2005 Location: Budapest, Hungary Posts: 70 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Since I use NYGM damage mod, I love Kleiner Frachters! They mostly sink with 1 torp, and there will be not the cause, where you pump several torps in a ship, and it don't sinks. Sometimes, 1 torp is not enough, but if the weather is good, I can sink it with the gun. When the Kleiner Frachter have also gun...well, I don't know, maybe it is possible, to destroy it with the first 1-2 shot?