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#1 |
Ace of the Deep
![]() Join Date: Feb 2003
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I'm playing a campaign mission right now Nov 1943. My VIIC has the usual assortment of radar/radar detector equipment installed.
I find that I normally get the "Detecting Radar Signals" message when the source is a loooong way off giving ample time to dive safely. Every book I've read dealing with later war years describes aircraft attacks to often be a sudden totally unexpected experience. Sometimes the detector gave enough advance notice to dive out of harms way and sometimes it worked only when the boat was already in visual range resulting in a panic dive. This commonly found the boat taking heavy damage as it attempted to claw its way down. Night time ac attacks were even more devestating especially when Leigh Lights were used. Poking around the SNS files for PBY and Sunderland aircraft to see what airborn radars are employed it shows different versions of the ASV series. Looking thru the AI_Sensors .dat file I find that there are 5 different ASV radars available depending on year. These all have a MaxRange= setting between 8000 and 16000m. That's a pretty fair distance and if picked up by the detector on the boat allows plenty of time for diving. What I am thinking of is editing 5 MaxRange= files from 2500m to 6000m plugging these into SH3 Commander Random folders so that we may occasionally experience a truly unexpected air attack which may result in devestating consequences. Is this thought worth pursuing and are there enough people out there who are using Commanders Random function to make it worthwhile?
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#2 |
GWX Project Director
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I think this issue holds hands with all of the other sensor issues in a way.
I also think your idea to use SH3 Cmdr is a great one! The only thing that I don't like is the fact that RWR failure chances aren't already randomized by SH3 itself. Furthermore, everyone should be appropriately afraid of air attack. Your proposed mod would contribute to that and maybe shake loose a bit of complacency. RWR should be an augmentation... not a cure-all. GO FOR IT!!! ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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#3 |
Mate
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Sounds like a plan worth pursuing.
Maybe the "detect radar" ranges can also be randomized a little in the sensors.cfg. I noticed that it uses crew efficiency also. |
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#4 | ||
Ace of the Deep
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#5 |
GWX Project Director
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![]() ![]() I guess I should read a little more slowly next time. |
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#6 |
Ace of the Deep
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Cdre Gibs
Thanks, found them in Sensors_dat. not AI_Sensors. Looks like the named RWR units have ranges between 20,000 and 30,000m Same theory using random files reducing down to drastically close in ranges.
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#7 | |||
The Old Man
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So, is that what you're trying to simulate here, i.e., some % chance that the plane will be using an undetectable radar type and therefore not be detectable by the uboat with much if any warning? Is the difference in airplane radar types vs u-boat detector types not modeled in the game, so you want to simulate it with this approach? Or are you really trying to simulate a situation where the airplane's radar would be detectable but the plane wouldn't just be cruising around with it always on (and therefore always be detectable at long range) but would instead be turning it on occasionally and leaving it off the rest of the time, so you want to simulate situations where the plane sometimes first detects the u-boat (and vice versa) at relatively short range because it happened to turn on its radar when it happened to be fairly close to the u-boat? If this were the goal though, I assume you would want to mod the airplane radar 'cause you would not really want to airplane to locate the sub from any further out than it actually "turns on" its radar. Would the approach you take to this, in terms of choosing whether to mod either the u-boat's sensors or the airplane's radars, differ depending upon which of the two theoretical "problems" described above you were trying to fix, or is it just a question of planes never surprising subs the way the game works now and you're trying to simulate surprise no matter what the reason? (I'm just curious - I've never survived late enough into the war in my 3 careers so far to have radar detectors, and I'm always being "surprised" by aircraft anyway, even in the early war period, in that there is never any time to do anything (other than crash dive) between the time I first get an "aircraft sighted" warning and the time the bombs start falling, so I don't have any practical in-game experience to judge this issue by)
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#8 | |
Ace of the Deep
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My theory was to mimick later war behaviour of a boat getting caught on the surface by AC. Aircraft attacks accounted for a huge amount of U Boat attrition in the later years. Right now playing in early 44 my radar warning is always giving me way too much advance notice that an AC is inbound. Early war gameplay however you are correct we get surprised all the time, but later years unless there's a surprise or unexpected attack it's too easy. In my current campaign patrol leaving St Naziere crossing the Bay of Biscay heading toward grid AK. Travelling surfaced as much as possible I have run into multiple inbound Aircraft daily. Each and every time I am able to dive to a safe depth with plenty of time to spare.
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#9 | |
Fuel Supplier
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Hemisent said (of early 1944):
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Stiebler. |
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#10 |
Ace of the Deep
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Also, I may add that in RL uboat Kaleuns often shut off the RWR, because the thought it might give away their position (which could not be done both in RL in WWII, and in SH3); resulting in surprise attacks.
These surpise attacks were further enhanced after a non-military consultant suggested that the u-boat air hunters would change their colors into sky-blue in order to be less visible by u-boats. And they indeed became less visible... @ Cdre Gibs Trying to survive in 1945 with an XXI patrolling close to the UK and using your snorkel fix, I have the gut feeling that the 3 cm (the original is 3mm?) radar is still way to accurate even in dead calm seas. I cannot snorkel more than ~20 minutes before being bombed to oblivion even travelling @ 16 m snorkeldepth using my global XXI fix. Do you think this is realistic (hell I know it's not on the gameplay side, anyway)? These 3 cm radars didn't have false alarms? Do you think that further nerfing (say to 30 cm) is out of the question or not? @Hemisent After the thermal layers thing, I am conviced that you will provide again an excellent quality sensors randomizer. It is also a good opportunity (since you have Cdre Gibs and Stiebler hanging around this thread) to wrap this sensors affair up. I can beta-test if you want. |
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