Wowh! If they manage to reach that...

[Skybird]

... I bow my head, then.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,,1704954,00.html

That'S exactly the reaction I hoped for - but did not dare to say out loud, not wanting to be called an utopist.

[Drebbel]

Hmm, what replacment are the gonna use for plastic, and many medicines, how they gonna fly airplanes ? Just to name a few

[JSLTIGER]

Yeah, but if the world can eliminate burning gasoline in cars, we should have enough to continue making plastics and such for a couple hundred more years, instead of sixty. I can't remember exactly what percentage of oil is used for fuel, but I do know that it's far higher than that used to make plastics. Sweden's got the right idea. If we don't get off of oil soon, the entire world is liable to be in boatloads of trouble.

My beliefs on the matter:

Originally Posted by JSLTIGER

The American economy has not been in such a dire situation since the late 1920's. Americans are spending every penny that they have as soon as they get it, with more than 50% of the populace living paycheck to paycheck, savings are at their lowest levels since just before the Great Depression. The US is producing less and less and relying on services more and more. Our trade deficits are massive, already unsustainable, and only growing. The budget deficit brought on by the war is continuing to grow, and yet the POTUS continues to ask for more funding for current programs and the creation of new ones.

The only reason that Americans have been able to support an economy of the current scale is by tapping into the vast savings created by the lack of consumer products available in World War II. The demand and boom of the 1950s-1970s all resulted from Americans tapping into their savings to buy new goods. When these savings are finally depleted in full and the other nations of the world stop funding our debt, America will be in for a massive economic slide, the likes of which haven't been seen since 1929.

Originally Posted by JSLTIGER

Personally, I don't even think America can make it for another 60 years. Most of the American economy relies on cheap oil. As we get closer to the end of the world's oil supplies (predicted to be anywhere from 2031-2066), the American economy will become increasingly disrupted by the ever-increasing costs of energy. The only potential way to avoid this is for America to get its head out of its ::expletive:: and give up the gasoline-based internal combustion engine and fossil fuel based energy.

In my opinion, the most promising technology is the Generation IV nuclear reactor. Moderated by liquid lead instead of water, it has the advantages of producing Hydrogen (which can be reclaimed for use in fuel cells), and running at 1 ATM pressure instead of the 350 ATM typically used in today's water moderated Generation II and III reactors. When combined with breeder reactors which produce more fissile fuel than is used (currently outlawed in the US, unfortunately), we can stretch our supply of fission-able material from 60 to 500+ years. That should give us enough time to come up with a suitable alternative (i.e. fusion) before we run out of energy entirely.

[Skybird]

Unfortunately, the class of the socalled working poor is exploding in size in Germany as well. A signal that something is seriously going wrong. If you work 11 hours in a shop, then go to a second evening job, a call-center or a drive-in, and work another 5, then come home and have 4 hours left to sleep and then raise again and go to work again, and if this is so and at the end of the month you have not one euro left, then this is kind of betrayal, especially if the social security system is beeing reduced and people are told they should use free money from their income to lay it aside for the days when they are old. More and more poeple do not have any money left to invest into their future security anymore, and the number of jobs with social-insurance are beeing reduced, while the nuber of minor and "mini"jobs without such insurance are growing, and very drastically so. Six years ago we had less than 1.5 million of these. Today it is more than 7 million, tendency rising. this is a desastrous eroding of the fundament of both the economy and the social security system. Correcting it was needed, it was too exaggerated for sure. But what is done now is to crack it up completely. at the same time people are told, the money they do not have anymore they should invest in stocks of those economical megaplayers that are responsible for degrading the working contracts and that in Germany since years make record wins, year by year, and expand - and kill jobs by the hundreds of thousands nevertheless, all in the name of globalization. When today'S workers are grown old, they will be left with no social insurance, no private money - what should become of them...???

Stockholders are a pleague. The system should be forbidden. a company's primary duty is to do what it is payed for and to take care that those that are working for it get a fair return in form of fair payment, participation in profits, and future perspective. What have stockholders to do with it? They do not help, they do not work, they do not assist, the built nothing with their hands, they produce nothing - they only demand with open hands, and emitts poressue that helps to fire even more employees. Look at stockmarkets: the day one company announces that it is about to fire some hundre or thiusand people - the charts go up.

Make me the lord of the world and give me the unlimited power from above, I immediately would destroy:
1.) all holy sites of all religions
2.) all stockmarkets
3.) and hollywood, in exactly this order.

As for the topic, I think they will concentrate on traffic beeing able to flow without vehicles needing oil (as Ford originally had planned his cars anyway, btw.). If they could reach that, they are already no more vulnerable from oil from Muslim countries. that would be the biggest win for a western country since the defeat of the Nazis.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Skybird

... I bow my head, then.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,,1704954,00.html

That'S exactly the reaction I hoped for - but did not dare to say out loud, not wanting to be called an utopist.

From the link -

The Swedish government is working with carmakers Saab and Volvo to develop cars and lorries that burn ethanol and other biofuels

Alcohol and muck

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by STEED

From the link -

Alcohol and muck

The technology already is there, Germany, Switzerland and Austria have comprabale models. Even heavy construction vehicles and caterpillars, cranes. Currently they do not have the endurance like oil-based pendants, but they can come up with comparable power.

Even Germann Leopard II was designed with a 1500 PS Diesel - which in case of emergency also can operate by using vegetable oil. It was a requested design feature.

Ford wanted to construct cars burning ethanol from the evry beginning. But at that time they had the prohibition, so producing large ammounts of alcohol was not considered to be a clever idea. So they redesigned the motors to burn oil instead.

Some poeple's obsession with having as much hp as possible is not constructive. That oil-engine's performance cannot be reached by engines using alternative fuels is a prejudice, because since yeras this argument has been proven wrong. so far the status quo ensures profits for interest circles and industries (oil, cars). That is the only reason why these alternative engines are not already as present on the market as they could be.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Skybird

...- but did not dare to say out loud, not wanting to be called an utopist.

Too late Skybird you were called a utopist a looong time ago.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Drebbel

Hmm, what replacment are the gonna use for plastic, and many medicines, how they gonna fly airplanes ? Just to name a few

Whats important is that its a beginning. I'm sure they won't hand out death sentences to pilots for using jet fuel.

[Catfish]

Hello,
good idea to shift to other technologies - less dependent to other countries, cheap energy - a dream come true.

Burning fossil resources is a waste, apart from pumping the burned gaseous carbon hydroxydes into the air again - without cutting off the detritious cycle of organic matter millions of years ago the world would not have the amount of oxygen it now has.

We should reserve oil for making plastics and medicine like aspirine, not burn it. Hydrogenium has all you need, and production and storing is currently being developed for fuel cells in Germany.

Unfortunately the production of hydrogen is expensive, but if you put some hundred years of development in it (like it was put into refining of oil etc.), it may well replace other energy bearing substances. B.t.w. the production of H with nuclear reactors is much too small for real use.

Fusion is a good idea (if it worked), but remains the problem of the storage of the produced energy.

Greetings,
Catfish

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Make me the lord of the world and give me the unlimited power from above, I immediately would destroy:
1.) all holy sites of all religions
2.) all stockmarkets
3.) and hollywood, in exactly this order.

Will you ever wake up and quit fantasizing...all your dreams of a peaceful happy world will not come about until it is purified in fire...whatever remains is worthy of life.

But by all means keep dreaming if it pleases you.

First time it was cleansed by water next is FIRE....hope your ready.

[JSLTIGER]

Originally Posted by Catfish

B.t.w. the production of H with nuclear reactors is much too small for real use.

With the current reactors, this is the truth. However, the new proposed Generation IV reactor designs are supposed to produce significantly more Hydrogen than current models.

[TteFAboB]

It says there are 9 million Swedes and that they are advanced in all areas except transportation. It seems the key is how much biomass fuel they can produce from their "massive forests" and the circle is complete, then it's all a matter of time.

[August]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

It says there are 9 million Swedes and that they are advanced in all areas except transportation. It seems the key is how much biomass fuel they can produce from their "massive forests" and the circle is complete, then it's all a matter of time.

Assuming of course that their massive forests can be regenerated fast enough to compensate for the increased demand...

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Iceman

First time it was cleansed by water next is FIRE....hope your ready.

That must be the nukes right? I'm bulding my bomb shelter now so I'll be ready.

[Spoon 11th]

Sweden is buying that sugarcane ethanol from Brazil.