Tragic Hajj stampede

[Sixpack]

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/me...ede/index.html

The acts of stoning were aimed at the devil, or so I understand. But was the devil in fact very much at work ?

Anway: Tragic

.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Sixpack

The acts of stoning were aimed at the devil

What CNN doesn't tell you.

We saw this several nights ago, on the news. I believe it occurred at the site of the 3 pillars, if I recollect correctly.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

What CNN doesn't tell you.

We saw this several nights ago, on the news. I believe it occurred at the site of the 3 pillars, if I recollect correctly.

Thank you AL for the link....I would rather see the truth like that then live in ignorance....To see the chanting Death to America,Death to Isreal has to be seen and heard for reality to stay sunk in.

[Oberon]

Sheep

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Sixpack

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/12/hajj.stampede/index.html

The acts of stoning were aimed at the devil, or so I understand. But was the devil in fact very much at work ?

Anway: Tragic

.

The whole process is simply symbolic. It is sad but there have been far worse instances in previous years such as three or four years ago when approx 1000 people died. Logistically it is a very difficult process to manage such a great number of people.

Originally Posted by Iceman

Thank you AL for the link....I would rather see the truth like that then live in ignorance....To see the chanting Death to America,Death to Isreal has to be seen and heard for reality to stay sunk in.

Firstly, I viewed the clip here: http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD106706

To me it looks like a typical Iranian Govt PR stunt with the "death to America" and "death to Israel" ranting. The 'huge swelling crowd' of a few hunded or so Iranian pilgrims seemed half asleep or perhaps they are getting tired of being fed the repetitive Tehran Government line. Near 3 million pilgrims went on Hajj this year and here we have what amounts to less than 0.01% at an Iranian political rally. This is NOT what Hajj is about.

Iceman, Am I seeing the 'truth' in news reports from America of Cindy Sheehan and a hundered or so anti-war protesters outside President Bush's ranch as being an accurate and representitive view of how all or most Americans feel about President Bush and the Iraq war. I really don't think so. Or should I? What say you sir?

[Iceman]

Konovalov....I think for yrs now it is quite obvious how Americans feel...they pretty much are always split 50/50 on everything. It truly is a melting pot over here....we have Muslims and Jews...Buddahists...and Christians....We got Satan Worshippers and Athesists....We got it all...do not misunderstand me...I know exactly where other cultures come from when they call America the "Great Satan" my country has some issues truly yet what is funny to me is how all cultures cling to the illusion of there own importance and self-justifications for what is done by them.All are guilty of sin to me and are as messed up as the next guy. The planet in the mean time is the victum of our works and we will ultimatly pay the price for our lack of vision... ...hum heard that on Star Wars once too lol...

[Sixpack]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

What CNN doesn't tell you.

I didnt mention Israel and America explicitly as the (in this respect quite obviously perceived) Satan-on-Earth in my final version, as not to upset some sensitive people in this forum.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Sixpack

I didnt mention Israel and America explicitly as the (in this respect quite obviously perceived) Satan-on-Earth in my final version, as not to upset some sensitive people in this forum.

You're a good dhimmi.

Konovalov, it's not just the Iranians and I think you should know by now that the audiences are slightly bigger than a few hundred people.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Konovalov, it's not just the Iranians and I think you should know by now that the audiences are slightly bigger than a few hundred people.

I was replying specifically about those who were on Hajj as this topic was about. You are talking about a guy on TV in Saudi Arabia which is a seperate issue relating to the goings on in Saudi of which I strongly oppose (ie. two faced in allies to the West and on other side pandering to the Wahabs).

I don't know how many people in Saudi watch TV and who specifically watched this particular program. Do you know the figures? I suspect not. In any case this has nothing to do with pilrims on Hajj or about 350 pilrims being crushed to death. It's a convenient platform for you though. I have not experienced Hajj myself but from going off family members and speaking to friends and the writings of those who have experienced Hajj they don't sit down and watch TV.

[Konovalov]

Avon Lady, In response to a thread about the tragic mining accident and the miss-communication/stuff-up you wrote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

More details here.



It's a double tragedy. Leave it at that.

Here 350 odd people died, another senseless tragedy. Why not extend the same courtesy, leave it at that as you said in the mining disaster topic and start a new thread on your mentioned area of discussion?

[Sixpack]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

You're a good dhimmi.

No way I'd ever pay Jizyah !

[tycho102]

I also refuse to pay the jizya and feel myself subdued.

As for the people trampled to death, this stuff happens *every* year. They whip everybody up into this frezy to annhilate the Satan, and then cut them loose in a rage. In years past, they at least removed all the large stones in the area, because people were catching one upside the skull on the other side of the pillar. Now, everyone throws pea sized (or grains of sand) at the thing.



I am reminded of the movie "Full Metal Jacket", and the way Marines are indoctrinated. LET ME SEE YOUR WAR FACE! WHAT MAKES THE GRASS GROW?! And then they cut them loose onto the rifle range to annhilate their target.

[Abraham]

I think we see here on this forum as well as in the real world that a relatively small group of people use their religion as a platform for political extremism and in this way taints a whole religion.

It's up to us to realise that this group of 'activists' seems to be rather small and not representative of their religion as a whole. It is up to Islam to make sure that the world understands that these people are in no way representing the general opinion of Islam or condoned in their extremism by their religion.

I further think that both we and the Islam often fail in this.

Anyway, the matter of the Iranians uttering their "Israel & the US are Satan"-fascism is off topic. The individual human suffering is the same, whether the victims are miners or muslims.

Whatever way you look at it, it remains - as Sixpack said - a tragedy.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Abraham

I think we see here on this forum as well as in the real world that a relatively small group of people use their religion as a platform for political extremism and in this way taints a whole religion.

Can you define "relative" as a percentage of the over-1-billion Muslims worldwide?

[Etienne]

Jihad watch! Now that's an unbiased news source!

A Saudi professor exhorts his people to hate christians? Wow, first page new. Have you ever seen an American TV evangelist? They've said worst. Routinely.