Help us Help you !!

[OneShot]

I've posted the same post over at the SCS Forum here

DISCLAIMER : The following content is entirely my personal opinion and by no means related to SUBSIM, SCS or anybody else!

Lately some things have started to annoy me. While I'm normaly pretty helpful and patient there are some things that can burn my fuse pretty quickly. I'm glad that SCS finally took the step and found ways to distribute DW better. However I get the feeling that some people leave their brains somewhere else when they turn on the PC and browse the net. Hence the following plead to other users ...

Before posting your questions try and use the SEARCH function EVERY board has, and once in a while ... Read the *******ing Manual (thats what RTFM means btw) because the game developers didn't include it for fun.

Believe me, most of the time you have encountered something that others have too, and the chances are pretty high somebody else has posted that allready, and most likely already got an answer for that.

And believe me, answering the same questions over and over again, gets old fast!

If you did that and still don't have a solution, ask and you will be answered and if its something new then your post might help in answering the problems of other people, so do not hesitate to ask if you really can't find a solution. But for gods sake try to find a solution for yourself first by all means necessary and only when that fails come and ask, or if you found a solution in between and you see that nobody else has posted something similar - share your findings with others. This helps the community.

Why do I say this ... because chances are high that if the helpful people around get abused to often by answering the same questions over and over again they might be compelled to leave or simply refuse to answer questions. And that surely helps nobody.

On a final note, let me clarify this : If you have looked around the available resources and still haven't found a workable solution for your problem then take the step and post your question(s) and you will get an answer (I hope).

P.S. : Double or even Triple posting the same question on mutliple boards is a bad way to get help. Yes you might get an answer fast, but instead try using one board and if there is no response after 24h, you can try a different board with a link back to your original post.

P.P.S. : Yes I just posted the same thing on two forums ... but its not a question but some thoughts I had and basis for a discussion. Since I'm interested in the opinion from both the people who browse the SCS and this forum I posted on both forums. Feel free to answer here or over at SCS.


Cheers
OneShot

[Ramius]

Yes, its a good idea to search before people post, but some people are like what you said about yourself in your other post - stick to ONE board.

Not everyone wants to sign up to this and that and then another forum just to get a question answered.

And of course theres the other side of it - maybe the person who knows the answer doesnt frequent that particual board ?

So whats wrong with posting the same question on 3 diffetent boards (or more for that matter) - nothing at all in my eyes as long as the peoson asking the question gets the answer they where looking for.
It helps them and any others who might have the same or similar problems.


But like you said its your personal opinion (which of course you are entitled too) and the above is mine.
So if people want to post on numerous sites - shouldnt that be upto them too

[OneShot]

Originally Posted by Ramius

So if people want to post on numerous sites - shouldnt that be upto them too

Sure, and I actually said that. All I'm asking for is that people dont post the same question simultaneously on multiple boards. Give the other people a chance to respond to the post on one board first. If that doesnt work out, give other means/boards a chance.

Heck I would do the same, if I dont get an answer within an acceptable timeframe on one board (for example here) I try other means/boards.

[Orm]

I thought that we were in democracy or what?? :hmm:

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Orm

I thought that we were in democracy or what?? :hmm:

“We are here to defend democracy not to practice it…�

[OneShot]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

“We are here to defend democracy not to practice it…�

Dang, which movie was that. I clearly remember this line, but I cant put a name on it .... :hmm:

Originally Posted by Orm

I thought that we were in democracy or what??

Yep, and ?? :hmm:

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by OneShot

Dang, which movie was that. I clearly remember this line, but I cant put a name on it .... :hmm:

'Crimson Tide'

[MaHuJa]

Originally Posted by Orm

I thought that we were in democracy or what?? :hmm:

I know players based in non-democracies, who likely have access to these boards...

...were you saying anything?

Oh, and... what did democracy have to do with any of this to begin with?



That said, on to the topic of searching first:

1) You should make sure to say that the results of a search are *immediate* as opposed to waiting for a reply. That is quite the incentive for those struggling with a game etc.

2) It's often hard to find something unless you can come up with the exact words used in the posts you are looking for. And we do have quite a vocabulary in navalsimming, which may not be apparent to a newbie.

Only a FAQ can help on that, and that only with great care.

3) There are discussion groups (mailing lists) where repeating the basic questions are encouraged, and copy/paste answers are discouraged. The reason is that in formulating the answer over again (=differently) each time new aspects may be illuminated. (Yikes... Can anyone come up with a more elegant (and most importantly commonly understandable) way of saying it? I'm stuck...)

There is much about DWBasics that isn't totally a given.

(Some basic questions turned into ~50 post threads because of something that turned up as described.)

4) (Some? Many?) People tend to think that their question is somewhat unique - usually in the light that they haven't known anything like it themselves, perhaps? And if it was unique, searching would be a waste of time.

[Orm]

Originally Posted by MaHuJa

I know players based in non-democracies, who likely have access to these boards...

...were you saying anything?

Oh, and... what did democracy have to do with any of this to begin with?



That said, on to the topic of searching first:

1) You should make sure to say that the results of a search are *immediate* as opposed to waiting for a reply. That is quite the incentive for those struggling with a game etc.

2) It's often hard to find something unless you can come up with the exact words used in the posts you are looking for. And we do have quite a vocabulary in navalsimming, which may not be apparent to a newbie.

Only a FAQ can help on that, and that only with great care.

3) There are discussion groups (mailing lists) where repeating the basic questions are encouraged, and copy/paste answers are discouraged. The reason is that in formulating the answer over again (=differently) each time new aspects may be illuminated. (Yikes... Can anyone come up with a more elegant (and most importantly commonly understandable) way of saying it? I'm stuck...)

There is much about DWBasics that isn't totally a given.

(Some basic questions turned into ~50 post threads because of something that turned up as described.)

4) (Some? Many?) People tend to think that their question is somewhat unique - usually in the light that they haven't known anything like it themselves, perhaps? And if it was unique, searching would be a waste of time.

Listen, I did not post my first reply to begin a polemic, but I feel that you forced me into a very sterile discussion that should not have begin in the first place.
Since when someone on the net decide for the others that one thread is not acceptable. I think that I am rather confident that it will not be you or the one who begun this particular thread.
Now, we knew before that when DW will go retail, newbies will come to this forum to ask all kind of questions (the ones we ourselves asked when we then got DW) and that’s the way it is. And I respect it. Of course, nowadays, I don’t read most this threads but sometimes, it is good to look back at some of the matters that were discussed previously. Anyway, it doesn’t hurt anybody.

BTW, this thread has nothing to do in this forum, and I would urge the moderator to locked it before it is too late.

[Miika]

"There are no stupid questions; the answers might be."

I don't mind people asking questions. Having learnt to use the DW mission editor, I'm actually happy to be of help to some new member, since that can only mean that we will have more players and more custom missions.

DW is quite a complex game, and beyond the level of understanding how it works there is the level of understanding how it doesn't. (Especially with the editor, sometimes ) The point being that there is a huge amount to learn, and most of the useful stuff only comes with experience.

If we want to have more participation and players, we should in my opinion encourage new people to write to this forum, no matter the subject.

Not anyone will answer, but someone will.

Miika

[Bellman]

I agree Mika. We have all asked questions or raised issues that have been addressed previously.

A polite referal to 'Search' or a link is all thats required. But so often when the matter is raised again new
information comes to light, particularly in an environment where Patches and Mods prevail.

So I say go ahead and ask - we must encourage and support newcommers to the game. Lets not forget also
that some of these folk are very experienced with other sims and may quickly put their finger on real issues.
I wont quote chapter and verse but any constant reader here will already have seen examples of this.

My motto is still listen and learn.

[OneShot]

Originally Posted by Bellman

A polite referal to 'Search' or a link is all thats required. But so often when the matter is raised again new
information comes to light, particularly in an environment where Patches and Mods prevail.

Thats basically the point I wanted to make (more or less). Ask questions if you dont understand something or have problems with it. BUT do everyone the favour and at least try to take a look around if there is already a solution to your problem you can live with (not every solution is perfect). If that look around doesnt satisfy you ... ASK (as in post your questions, problems, comments ...).

One of the reasons I had to vent, was the fact that some people apparently didnt even attempt a search for answers (at least it wasn't evident in their posts), but instead simply posted thus choose the easy way.

As I stated previously, I encourage everyone to post questions if he has them, that helps those who ask and everybody else who has the same problem (I particularly love threads about TMA, hopefully someday I finally figure it out in the game), otherwise I would never have started the CADC or spend further time on it.

Don't get me wrong, I dont want to shed the newbies here, I welcome them, because the more the merrier (as the saying goes) ...

[Bellman]

Thanks OS - I think you have summarised it very neatly there.