What is "creationism" ?

[Catfish]

Hello,
i heard that there are a lot of people calling themselves creationists, who do not believe in evolution and the like (being a geologist i find this hard to understand), but what exactly do they believe ? Since it seems to be a religious thing - i do not want to start a war here, just curious
Greetings,
Catfish

[TLAM Strike]

Basically they believe that Genesis chapter of the bible is true and should be taken literally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism

[Skybird]

It's a state of mind evolution got done with a damn long time ago Someone just forgot to tell them.

[Torpedo Fodder]

Not all Creationists believe that Genesis should be taken literally: Some believe that the world and life on it evolved as described by science, and that God simply "flipped the first domino" so to speak (for the record I am not one of these people, being a athiest). The ones who think Genesis should be taken literally and that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old are known as Young Earth Creationists, or YECs. These are almost always bible-thumping Christian fundimentalists, who think the rest of the Bible should be taken literally as well.

[Camaero]

I would think it's hard for them to explain dinosaur bones right? Or do they have a theory on that?

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by Camaero

I would think it's hard for them to explain dinosaur bones right? Or do they have a theory on that?

They mostly do this by arguing with paleontologists on their age-analysis techniques, saying that all those bones are just a few thousand years old. :hmm:

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Camaero

I would think it's hard for them to explain dinosaur bones right? Or do they have a theory on that?

They say some beasts mentioned in the bible are in fact dinosaurs.

[Iceman]

We..."Creationists" do believe in the literal translation of the Bible....but where does anyone get 10,000 yrs?...it is stated... it..the earth,...heaven, and all in it, and under it were made in 6 days....and the 7th God rested.Now here is where I know many Bible believeing people are getting confused and many evolutionists but I believe they are both right.If God moves at, at least the speed of light, then according to Einstein this is where time stands still, hence Eternity with God is possible dwelling in that light....so if ya think about it a "Day" to God in making the Heavens in one day...The Earth in another....etc etc...what is a million...a billion or whatever when "Time" has almost no meaning whatsoever?....It is said the beasts of the field and there kind etc etc all came about. For this to have taken Billions of yrs makes perfect sense and would prove Both...the natural evolution of the Earth and my belief is that when it was rdy on the 6th day..God made men...and then breathed a soul into him...and deposited him on the new creation...and in the first days or yrs or whatever...screwed up.So according to the Bible men lived into the 900's and since evil released into the world now will be good to make it to 60.I believe if no "Fall" occured there would have been no reason for the body to die.

Death is the thing that was not meant to be and is the last enemy...not Satan to be defeated according to Christian doctorine.

So some will say ...Iceman does not believe in what the Bible says. ..All made in 7 days...yes I do, but I ask you and any one else...What is a day to a being "God" who lives forever....maybe a billion yrs is only a breath of the lung.

This is why Evolutionsists keep looking to the "Big Bang"...the Big Bang was God saying let the waters divide the waters.

Genesis 1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Guess it back to the ole "Interpretation" thing again...same with the scientists too lol.

[Torpedo Fodder]

but where does anyone get 10,000 yrs?

Well, It's generally accepted that Jesus lived 2,000 years ago, and by going through the geneolegies given in several parts of the Bible (such as the ancestry of Noah in Genesis right back to Adam or the ancestry of Joseph given in Matthew), then the time of the Creation would work out to about 4,000 years before the time of Jesus or 6,000 years ago from today. For the record, over a third of the US population believes that the Earth is "only" this old.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Torpedo Fodder

Well, It's generally accepted that Jesus lived 2,000 years ago, and by going through the geneolegies given in several parts of the Bible (such as the ancestry of Noah in Genesis right back to Adam or the ancestry of Joseph given in Matthew), then the time of the Creation would work out to about 4,000 years before the time of Jesus or 6,000 years ago from today. For the record, over a third of the US population believes that the Earth is "only" this old.

I'm sorry ..yes I understand where they arrive at that conclusion...and point I make is the First chapter in Genesis ...a "Day" is what??? boils down what God considers a day I guess is what I meant.

My kid asks those questions too like...Who made God?

Only find out or understand when we cross over.

[The Avon Lady]

Some points of view from Judaism's side:

A Timeless Argument About Creation.

Evolution: Rationality vs. Randomness

Age of the Universe.

Personally, I can take it either way. Here we are and that's what counts!

[joea]

My opinion, science explains "how" religion explains "why" and "who."

I have to agree with Iceman, centuries ago, the Greek fathers of the Church like St. Basil also spoke of the 7 days as great ages. I do think it would be silly of God to create fossils and paly with light from distant galaxies to make it seem older than it is.

the links the aAvon Lady posted are very intertesting, will have to read the last one on the ag of the universe a couple of times seems heavy.

[Catfish]

Hello,
since english is not my mother tongue i probably write things a bit different from what i mean, so please bear with me.
Ok, so according to the Avon Lady the bible and Torah is used to explain what science found out, to justify the old testament is nevertheless right, and literally. You can certainly claim that even the bible has been written by man, but they will tell you it was dictated by god.
But this is the Judaism's way to explain (is it really?), probably not the creationist.

I just saw a film on that very theme, and the creationists were mentioned in claiming god created man and all animals at a time, including nowadays extinct species (as a paleontologist and geologist i have some doubts).
All "evidence" we find is put up as a test by god whether you believe in him or not - despite research and science. There are certainly different opinions among the creationist factions. In the film there were proud country singers telling the crowd why Darwin and evolution is wrong and intelligent "instant-design" from a higher will is right (i must say i doubt intelligent design when i look at most of my neighbours, even if i look at me - but then it is not so far developed either lol).

"For the record, over a third of the US population believes that the Earth is "only" this old." (comment: some 6000 years)
I once saw a film from the 50ies, i guess Spencer Tracy was a lawyer that had to defend a teacher talking about evolution to his scholars. The poor teacher had to face serious punishment in case of a condemnation. Please tell me that's not true today (?).
I knew that the pilgrims left England because of religious (puritan) beliefs, but is this view really widespread in the US today?? I mean the USA is Nr. 1 in Science and technology (generally spoken), you are extracting oil that began to form up in the Jurassic times - you use all kinds of stuff to determine age and evolution for developing all kinds of technology and weapons ... i'm speechless. One third, really.

For me there is no doubt that earth and universe is indeed much older than 10.000 years, and that evolution happens.
If it contradicts the bible, well one thing i say is you cannot take the bible literally. Maybe some people cannot understand ethical behaviour without the bible, ok.
I cannot prove the non-existence of god, and i cannot prove the existence or non-existence of flying spaghetti monsters. But i can try to accept the evidence of what natural science (or better natural philosophy) found out from the 17th century until today. Maybe you have to believe in something, even if it is science.

From one of A. lady's links relating to rationality against randomness:
"Gerald Schroeder earned his BSc, MSc and PhD at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology."
Really. I begin to doubt the MIT's reputation.

That we are actually here may also be an illusion - at least the universe as we see it may look much different than others see it (like Flying spaghetti monsters lol, i guess i'll become a member there.
But honestly, if creationism is allowed to be tought in school and in universities (against all evidence) the FSM theory also must be allowed (there's no evidence either), in so far
http://www.venganza.org/
is right

Greetings,
Catfish

[kiwi_2005]

It doesn't hurt to take a hard look at yourself from time to time, and this should help get you started.. During a visit to the mental asylum, a visitor asked the Director what the criterion was which defined whether or not a patient should be institutionalized. "Well," said the Director, "we fill up a bathtub, then we offer a teaspoon, a teacup and a bucket to the patient and ask him or her to empty the bathtub." "Oh, I understand," said the visitor. "A normal person would use the bucket because it's bigger than the spoon or the teacup. "No," said the Director, "A normal person would pull the plug. Do you want a room with a view?"
:|\

[jumpy]

Imo, 'creationism' is (like all religious beliefs) tantermount to superstition.
Sadly, religion exists to 'fill the gaps' left by science and unfortunately whilst science keeps evolving, religion is firmly entrenched in the past (like those dinosaurs the happy-clappers maintain were made by god as fossils to be 'discovered' by man- "all part of God's rich tapestry" yeh, riiight)

I'm afraid that trying to mix science and creationism into some sort of amalgam just doesn't cut it for me.
Sure, religion had its uses; back when the state and the church were more or less the same thing it was good for keeping the unruly (but largely god-fearing) unwashed masses under control, a guide to tell uneduacted ppl how to behave and how to get along with eachother and be nice, if you will.
These days however, saying creationism is the real deal is like trying to prove that the world is flat- most sensible people will laugh at you, and quite rightly so.
I'm not denying the existance of something we as a species don't know about or understand ie. how the universe came to be etc. But I don't see this lack of knowlege as any kind of reason to declare that it must be because of 'GOD' or semolina or whatever, just because we don't yet know the whole truth. And if you look at it like that 'God' is just a euphamism for ignorance. :hmm: