Merchant chases during storms

11-24-05, 08:27 AM

Hello,

What would be the best way to hunt lone merchants in bad weather ?

Generally, I can easily chase them using the hydrophone, and after some time even manage to see and ID them - but that's only for a second or two, since sighting them is only by chance, as in heavy rain/fog I can pass by them on surface at 500 meters and not notice them.
Last time it took me 4 torps to hit a small merchant - after I drew his course, and sat out where he should pass me, two torps hit him, but didn't explode - because I had forgot that my distance to him was less than 300 m (but really, at ranges more than 300 m I couldn't see him well, and get a firing solution), the third was a miss, and only at fourth torp I managed to hit him, since he continued in a straight line.

Now I have another case like this - I have trailed a C2 for around 36 hours, hoping for the weather (15 m/s, heavy fog, heavy rain) to improve. And I have only two torpedoes left, so I can't afford any risky shots, they need to sink the ship. I surfaced right next to him recently, and now he seems to zig-zag - at least from what I can hear on the hydro, haven't tried to close so much again.

What should I do ?

Playing latest RuB, realism 93% (using weapon officer assistance). Year is 1940, and the ship is near the english east coast.

Dowly · 11-24-05, 08:33 AM

In my last patrol on W@W, I missed 3-4 shots on a single merchant in a bad weather. Then I gave up. From on I wont attack even a stationary target in bad weather.

But then again waiting for the weather to calm is a bit risky too. The storm I was on, started on 3rd on sea and lasted till the end of the patrol (24 days if I remember right).

Andrea-Jayne · 11-24-05, 04:07 PM

So, in essence, just what it would have been like for the real crews then? Which is what a "simulation" strives to achieve n'est pas?

Andrea-Jayne x

Wulfmann · 11-24-05, 04:14 PM

The heavy rain fog weather has a catch 22. If you can see him he is under 300 meters. If you can shoot him, you can't see him.

I have done this succesfully but it is a challenge to say the least hence it can be rewarding, difficulty wise.

My method is to only use a reported ship and by placing his course I put my boat directly in his path. When I pick up the sound I position my boat so he is at 0 degrees.
By tracking how much he varies I can guess a course. I place my boat slightly off that course at a 90% angle. I not only listen I ask for updates so I can know when he goes from long range to medium and then short. At a short rangeupdate I check his course and move my boat so I will be too close but sure to see him.
If I did it right he should appear and I hit emergancy reverse and hope I can back far enough to make a shot. As he is nearing going out of view I check the angle to make sure the fish will hit flat and fire.
(I play 100%)
Often I can not get far enough away to fire at a completely flat zero angle so I allow him to pass and make a 20 or 30% shot in front of his bow so it will hit flat.
I have done this many times and it is not too hard if the long range guess on course is accurate. Doing all this and getting it right only to have a hospital ship appear is a reminder of Murphy's involvement in SH3.

Wulfmann

microdiver · 11-24-05, 06:38 PM

If your sub can move faster than the ship when you're submerged, it's not that hard to get a hit firing blind.

What you do is approach him at periscope depth on a parallel course. Once you can see him you can lock onto him and get your weapon officer to identify the ship and give you a firing solution.
This will give you the target's speed and you'll be able to see his position on the map. Make a mark on the map.

Next go to flank speed and get in front of him while running mostly parallel to him. When you're almost out of range, make a second mark on the map and draw out his course line. At this point you should have a very accurate course line and since you're running submerged he probably hasn't seen you and won't change course. Make sure to tell your hydrophone operator to track that target.

Move out in front of the target and take up a position 350 to 400m off of his course line and come to a stop. Ideally your sub should be perpendicular to his course line, but if it's not, use the protractor tool to figure out what his bearing will be when his AOB is 90'. (you want a right angle between his course and your sub's position)

Go to the targeting computer and enter his AOB at 90', his speed, and your distance from his course line.
(don't forget that the ruler rounds to the NEAREST 100m. At 351m it changes from reading .3km to .4km)

Point your scope at the bearing where the target will be when it's at AOB 90'. If your sub is pointing straight at his course line that would be 0'.

Open the tube doors and listen while the sonar man calls out the bearing to target. When it's the same as your periscope bearing fire the torpedo.

Since you know his speed, AOB, distance, and bearing from all your setup, you should get a hit even though you can't see him or lock him.

Also, it's kind of a cheat, but if you keep hitting "L" when your scope is pointed at a ship you can get a lock for a second even if he's out of visual range before you lose it again. You could fire right after getting the lock to increase your chance of a hit.

11-25-05, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

But then again waiting for the weather to calm is a bit risky too. The storm I was on, started on 3rd on sea and lasted till the end of the patrol (24 days if I remember right).

So, what did you do during that patrol ? Does getting to other seas help ? The storm can't be EVERYWHERE, from North Sea to South Atlantic, for a full month!

One another option is to surface, match his speed and trail him exactly in his wake, with the same speed and direction, and then just hit full reverse and fire a fast steam torpedo under him... but that's also hard to do.

Dave Kay · 12-26-05, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dievs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

But then again waiting for the weather to calm is a bit risky too. The storm I was on, started on 3rd on sea and lasted till the end of the patrol (24 days if I remember right).

So, what did you do during that patrol ? Does getting to other seas help ? The storm can't be EVERYWHERE, from North Sea to South Atlantic, for a full month!

One another option is to surface, match his speed and trail him exactly in his wake, with the same speed and direction, and then just hit full reverse and fire a fast steam torpedo under him... but that's also hard to do.

Thanks guys--- some interesting stradegies here! During my first patrols on the North Sea I drove myself crazy trying to set-up on a merchant in heavy storm... you just can't afford to waste torps in a TypeII!

Eventually though, I learned to use the trail from behind technique; (if poor visablity allows) stay back 300M-plus, match your target's speed and course, set torpedo depth to 1.5M below target draft and use magnetic detonator. If you're spotted and she starts a zig-zag wait until she's about to go dead-ahead 0 degrees, then launch--- it's like timing a shot.

(don't forget to open the tubes first!)

This usually puts that 'fish' right under her keel long enough to to get a hit and slow her down... then you've got a sitting duck... patience!

Good luck!

Hartmann · 12-26-05, 12:27 PM

A lone merchant is not a problem in bad weather.

I usually use impact trigger and shallow running because the magnetic could be premature in rough seas.

you can wait to the night and do a surface attack, the uzo donÂ´t have any problem for use the stadimeter like the periscope in high waves.

Mark his position in the map and after 3:15 seconds do another mark, then you have his speed and course.
then calculate the distance with the uzo and the aob in the chart with the protactor.

wait to the 90Âº and fire

Crosseyed Skipper · 12-26-05, 05:33 PM

When ever I pick up a contact, be it visual or audio, I use techniques I picked up from the sound trainer mod. I figure out target speed by screw count long before I have visual then double check with the nomograph. The sound trainer will teach you to fire your eels from the hydrophone station without useing the periscope exept to ID the target. I can't promise you'll sink the target in one shot but with a little practice you will hit him. BTW I use SH3 Commanderand IUB 1.02

Kentrat · 12-26-05, 05:57 PM

I wonder if the best way of dealing with such a merchant would be using a ZaunkÃ¶nig or Falke, getting into about 1000 from target using flank and then cutting engines to zero just before firing. It would probably work on the larger vessels, I will give it a go and see what the outcome is. If you get a disabling hit in then the speed of the target would drop and you would then be able to 'mop up' with conventional eels...

Kentrat

Safe-Keeper · 12-26-05, 06:47 PM

This is one of the reasons I wish for a simple "follow target" order for SH IV. It'd be useful for tracking enemy merchants, following friendly warships for the safety of it or for hunting merchants with them, and for other purposes, too.

Type941 · 12-26-05, 07:45 PM

It's a bit ironic that you got 2 torpedoes left, bad weather, and one of the most 'unsinkable' merchants to top it off!! ... Good luck - I play on less level of difficulty than you do and can't advise you on killing it...

don1reed · 12-27-05, 03:45 AM

Axiom:

Never, never shoot at anything you cannot identify. <PERIOD>

Saukko · 12-27-05, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dievs

One another option is to surface, match his speed and trail him exactly in his wake, with the same speed and direction, and then just hit full reverse and fire a fast steam torpedo under him... but that's also hard to do.

I have used that a couple of times, distance can be even less than 300 meters because target is moving away from you, especially if you use slow torpedo. Magnetic torpedo under the screw, and it will stop eventually and then you can finish her.

Deimos01 · 12-28-05, 09:06 AM

Bah! All this tricky little sneaky manuvering. I go for the brute force approach.

In heavy fog, visibility is usually 350m max. Basically a point blank shot. What I do is track the target on hydro till I have a good fix on his course and position. Then surface and go flank speed till I spot him. Sometimes I have to dive to get a new fix again. Anyway, ahead flank till you spot the target. Run right up along side him. At this range it doesnt matter if he sees you or not. No amount of evasive manuvers will save a great wallowing merchie. Once you are along side of the target do a hard rudder turn away till you bring your stern tube to bear. Wait till you are at 300m the "FIRE". Bring yer boat hard around again to line up you bow. Provided you still have visual go to slow speed and see if he sinks. If not, plug him again. Simple, straight forward, quick.

Of course, you wouldnt want to do this on any armed ships.

11-24-05, 08:27 AM	#1
Dievs Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Merchant chases during storms Hello, What would be the best way to hunt lone merchants in bad weather ? Generally, I can easily chase them using the hydrophone, and after some time even manage to see and ID them - but that's only for a second or two, since sighting them is only by chance, as in heavy rain/fog I can pass by them on surface at 500 meters and not notice them. Last time it took me 4 torps to hit a small merchant - after I drew his course, and sat out where he should pass me, two torps hit him, but didn't explode - because I had forgot that my distance to him was less than 300 m (but really, at ranges more than 300 m I couldn't see him well, and get a firing solution), the third was a miss, and only at fourth torp I managed to hit him, since he continued in a straight line. Now I have another case like this - I have trailed a C2 for around 36 hours, hoping for the weather (15 m/s, heavy fog, heavy rain) to improve. And I have only two torpedoes left, so I can't afford any risky shots, they need to sink the ship. I surfaced right next to him recently, and now he seems to zig-zag - at least from what I can hear on the hydro, haven't tried to close so much again. What should I do ? Playing latest RuB, realism 93% (using weapon officer assistance). Year is 1940, and the ship is near the english east coast.

11-24-05, 04:07 PM	#3
Andrea-Jayne Watch Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: UK Posts: 21 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	So, in essence, just what it would have been like for the real crews then? Which is what a "simulation" strives to achieve n'est pas? Andrea-Jayne x __________________ A girl can command a sub in this virtual world. Wearing garter belt and stockings makes it even more enjoyable!

11-24-05, 04:14 PM	#4
Wulfmann Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 1,010 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	The heavy rain fog weather has a catch 22. If you can see him he is under 300 meters. If you can shoot him, you can't see him. I have done this succesfully but it is a challenge to say the least hence it can be rewarding, difficulty wise. My method is to only use a reported ship and by placing his course I put my boat directly in his path. When I pick up the sound I position my boat so he is at 0 degrees. By tracking how much he varies I can guess a course. I place my boat slightly off that course at a 90% angle. I not only listen I ask for updates so I can know when he goes from long range to medium and then short. At a short rangeupdate I check his course and move my boat so I will be too close but sure to see him. If I did it right he should appear and I hit emergancy reverse and hope I can back far enough to make a shot. As he is nearing going out of view I check the angle to make sure the fish will hit flat and fire. (I play 100%) Often I can not get far enough away to fire at a completely flat zero angle so I allow him to pass and make a 20 or 30% shot in front of his bow so it will hit flat. I have done this many times and it is not too hard if the long range guess on course is accurate. Doing all this and getting it right only to have a hospital ship appear is a reminder of Murphy's involvement in SH3. Wulfmann __________________ "The right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed upon, if only to prevent tyranny in government" Thomas Jefferson,; Constitutional debates

12-26-05, 12:27 PM	#8
Hartmann Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Grid CH 26, Spain ,Barcelona Posts: 1,857 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	A lone merchant is not a problem in bad weather. I usually use impact trigger and shallow running because the magnetic could be premature in rough seas. you can wait to the night and do a surface attack, the uzo donÂ´t have any problem for use the stadimeter like the periscope in high waves. Mark his position in the map and after 3:15 seconds do another mark, then you have his speed and course. then calculate the distance with the uzo and the aob in the chart with the protactor. wait to the 90Âº and fire __________________ But this ship can't sink!... She is made of iron, sir. I assure you, she can. and she will. It is a mathematical certainty. Strength and honor

12-26-05, 05:33 PM	#9
Crosseyed Skipper Swabbie Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Milwaukee WI Posts: 10 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	When ever I pick up a contact, be it visual or audio, I use techniques I picked up from the sound trainer mod. I figure out target speed by screw count long before I have visual then double check with the nomograph. The sound trainer will teach you to fire your eels from the hydrophone station without useing the periscope exept to ID the target. I can't promise you'll sink the target in one shot but with a little practice you will hit him. BTW I use SH3 Commanderand IUB 1.02 __________________ He got hit by a truck.......twice .

11-24-05, 08:33 AM	#2
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,006 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	In my last patrol on W@W, I missed 3-4 shots on a single merchant in a bad weather. Then I gave up. From on I wont attack even a stationary target in bad weather. But then again waiting for the weather to calm is a bit risky too. The storm I was on, started on 3rd on sea and lasted till the end of the patrol (24 days if I remember right).

11-24-05, 06:38 PM	#5
microdiver Nub Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 4 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	If your sub can move faster than the ship when you're submerged, it's not that hard to get a hit firing blind. What you do is approach him at periscope depth on a parallel course. Once you can see him you can lock onto him and get your weapon officer to identify the ship and give you a firing solution. This will give you the target's speed and you'll be able to see his position on the map. Make a mark on the map. Next go to flank speed and get in front of him while running mostly parallel to him. When you're almost out of range, make a second mark on the map and draw out his course line. At this point you should have a very accurate course line and since you're running submerged he probably hasn't seen you and won't change course. Make sure to tell your hydrophone operator to track that target. Move out in front of the target and take up a position 350 to 400m off of his course line and come to a stop. Ideally your sub should be perpendicular to his course line, but if it's not, use the protractor tool to figure out what his bearing will be when his AOB is 90'. (you want a right angle between his course and your sub's position) Go to the targeting computer and enter his AOB at 90', his speed, and your distance from his course line. (don't forget that the ruler rounds to the NEAREST 100m. At 351m it changes from reading .3km to .4km) Point your scope at the bearing where the target will be when it's at AOB 90'. If your sub is pointing straight at his course line that would be 0'. Open the tube doors and listen while the sonar man calls out the bearing to target. When it's the same as your periscope bearing fire the torpedo. Since you know his speed, AOB, distance, and bearing from all your setup, you should get a hit even though you can't see him or lock him. Also, it's kind of a cheat, but if you keep hitting "L" when your scope is pointed at a ship you can get a lock for a second even if he's out of visual range before you lose it again. You could fire right after getting the lock to increase your chance of a hit.

12-26-05, 05:57 PM	#10
Kentrat Torpedoman Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sitting on the Becks crate scraping the mould off the bread... Posts: 112 Downloads: 116 Uploads: 0	I wonder if the best way of dealing with such a merchant would be using a ZaunkÃ¶nig or Falke, getting into about 1000 from target using flank and then cutting engines to zero just before firing. It would probably work on the larger vessels, I will give it a go and see what the outcome is. If you get a disabling hit in then the speed of the target would drop and you would then be able to 'mop up' with conventional eels... Kentrat

12-26-05, 06:47 PM	#11
Safe-Keeper Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 3,234 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	This is one of the reasons I wish for a simple "follow target" order for SH IV. It'd be useful for tracking enemy merchants, following friendly warships for the safety of it or for hunting merchants with them, and for other purposes, too. __________________ First Strike Mod tester. Hardcore sub skipper.

12-26-05, 07:45 PM	#12
Type941 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: U-52 Posts: 1,270 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	It's a bit ironic that you got 2 torpedoes left, bad weather, and one of the most 'unsinkable' merchants to top it off!! ... Good luck - I play on less level of difficulty than you do and can't advise you on killing it... __________________ Sink the Bismarck SH3 Movie

12-27-05, 03:45 AM	#13
don1reed Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Valhalla: Silent Generation Posts: 1,149 Downloads: 910 Uploads: 0	Axiom: Never, never shoot at anything you cannot identify. <PERIOD> __________________ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~ George Orwell

12-28-05, 09:06 AM	#15
Deimos01 Frogman Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: St louis Posts: 304 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Bah! All this tricky little sneaky manuvering. I go for the brute force approach. In heavy fog, visibility is usually 350m max. Basically a point blank shot. What I do is track the target on hydro till I have a good fix on his course and position. Then surface and go flank speed till I spot him. Sometimes I have to dive to get a new fix again. Anyway, ahead flank till you spot the target. Run right up along side him. At this range it doesnt matter if he sees you or not. No amount of evasive manuvers will save a great wallowing merchie. Once you are along side of the target do a hard rudder turn away till you bring your stern tube to bear. Wait till you are at 300m the "FIRE". Bring yer boat hard around again to line up you bow. Provided you still have visual go to slow speed and see if he sinks. If not, plug him again. Simple, straight forward, quick. Of course, you wouldnt want to do this on any armed ships.