Need a hand on tweaking SH3 Commander for VIIC/42

[trebby]

I know the laying of the keel was as far as the VIIC/42 ever got.
But I am intigued with what if scenarios (notably the max depth attainable through Timetravellers mod to 450m as thicker and armoured steel would be used)

1. I would like to have the Option in say september 1943 to aquire a VIIC/42 in an career....

2. Also I would like to have the Option to start the war in 1939 in an IXB
(no historical objections, my age warrants it anyway lol) without any renown first.

3. Lastly, I want to start as an Oberleutnant instead of a Leutnant as my LI is outranking me and I have a hard time convincing him...
(I think historically at least Oberleutnant was given U commands anyway, mostly Kapitän-Leutnant or "Kaleunt")

As I use the awsome tool SH3 Commander. I suppose I would have to tweak that. I already tried changing values in the Flotilla.cfg and the
Uboat availability.cfg, but I dont really have a clue of the logic used and it failed. (I was smart enough for backups tough..)

Can anybody shed some light on this?

Thanks&Cheers trebby.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by trebby

1. I would like to have the Option in say september 1943 to aquire a VIIC/42 in an career....
2. Also I would like to have the Option to start the war in 1939 in an IXB (no historical objections, my age warrants it anyway lol) without any renown first.

Right, consider the SUBMARINE* blocks in Basic.cfg as look up lists only. SUBMARINE0 determines when each of the Type IIs become available, SUBMARINE1 determines the Type VIIs and so on. In stock SH3 these dates apply to *all* Flotillas.

SH3Cmdr overcomes this SH3 limitation by allowing (by default, realistic) availability dates to be set for each Flotilla. This is controlled by "U-boat availability.cfg". You'll see for each SUBMARINE block sub-blocks relating to the 1st, 2nd and 7th Flotillas (no other Flotillas have been modelled yet). These values are copied into the game depending on what Flotilla you are in (or want to start a career in). If you are in, say, the 7th Flotilla, the values starting with 904_ are copied into the game. But don't be confused by this workaround - it's still Flotilla.cfg that determines what sub types each Flotilla gets and what sub you start in for each year of the war. So, you need to pick a Flotilla first...

For the purposes of this demonstration, let's say that you want the VIIC/42 to be available to the 1st Flotilla in 9/39...

In "U-boat availability.cfg" (or "Basic.cfg" if you are not using SH3Cmdr), look for the following block:

[SUBMARINE1]
902_NbVersion=4
902_Version0=0 ; VIIB
902_Name0=VIIB
902_Month0=6
902_Year0=1941
902_Version1=1 ; VIIC
902_Name1=VIIC
902_Month1=3
902_Year1=1941
902_Version2=2 ; VIIC/41
902_Name2=VIIC/41
902_Month2=6
902_Year2=1944
902_Version3=3 ; VIIC/42
902_Name3=VIIC/42
902_Month3=6 <- CHANGE TO 9
902_Year3=1945 <- CHANGE TO 1939
902_DaysSpentInBase=45

This sets up the VIIC/42 to be recognised as an available sub in 9/39. But this change alone won't get you the sub. You need to link it to a Flotilla in "Flotilla.cfg". So, in "Flotilla.cfg", under "Flotilla0=902", look for the following:

Date00=1939
Month00=9
Starting00=Yes
TypeSub00=0; IIA <- CHANGE TO 1; VIIC
VersionSub00=0 <- CHANGE TO 3

Now you have set the VIIC/42 *as the starting sub* in the 1st Flotilla in 9/39. And it does work - I've done it many times for testing purposes. You can apply this logic to get any sub in any Flotilla at any time (although depending on the Flotilla you may need to also alter the associated NbUboats*, Uboat*_0, Uboat*_1 etc values). So, want an XXI in 1939, easy. An IXB, likewise. Renown cost: nothing.

Note that these changes do not get you the extra bits and pieces...they still become available at the appropriate dates. However, with this knowledge I'm sure you can determine what needs to be changed if you want them all in 9/39 also.

Originally Posted by trebby

3. Lastly, I want to start as an Oberleutnant instead of a Leutnant as my LI is outranking me and I have a hard time convincing him...
(I think historically at least Oberleutnant was given U commands anyway, mostly Kapitän-Leutnant or "Kaleunt")

The quick way is simply to bump up *_menu.txt entries 170 to 174 (in "Menu static.txt" if using SH3Cmdr). That is, remove the ranks to the *left* of the semicolons. Haven't tried it myself, but it's only labels so couldn't see why it wouldn't work. If it does work, then don't forget to change values 190 to 194 in SH3Cmdr_*.txt to ensure that your Personnel File ranks remain in sync.

FYI though:
1. There were a few Lt's in command of U-boats throughout the war, although the majority were ObLt's;
2. Kaleun, whilst being a contraction for the rank of KptLt, was also a title given to any U-boat Commander, regardless of rank held.
3. Install RUb and whilst you spend the first patrol as a humble Lt, you will be promoted to ObLt at the completion of it.

[trebby]

A swift response from the master himself...
Give a man a fish or teach em to fish...thanks a lot for your
exellent explanation!
Ill get down on it straight away!

Thanks for sharing this great tool,
all the best for now,

trebby

[trebby]

I did it...
IXB now available in 9/1939. Historically, only IXA was available at
that time so I added U37-41 in the U-numbers section of SH3Commander.
Will see if it offers these Uboat numbers in career mode...
Wil edit less feul/shorter range via Timetravellers SH3 crush depth mod.
Other than range I dont think theres much difference between the two.

Also opened a timeframe nov-dec 1943 (at 7th flotilla only) for VIIC/42, creating a "what if" if the 2 laid down had actually been launched&commisioned to front (1 each month.)

Lastly, tried to make VIIC available from oct 1940 (first front use by U-93/Claus Korth)
This only PARTLY succesful; the VIIC is available for the whole of 1940, also in the early months were I would like the VIIB to be active.
It seems to me that I can only give ONE sub type per YEAR to the flotilla.cfg .....
Yet I am able to have both the VIIC and VIIC41 and VIIC42 in 1944 in 7th flotilla. I recon because the game sees them all as VIIC subvariants?

Why else cant I have both VIIB and VIIC in 1940 in the same flotilla?

Cheers, trebby

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by JScones

For the purposes of this demonstration, let's say that you want the VIIC/42 to be available to the 1st Flotilla in 9/39...

In "U-boat availability.cfg" (or "Basic.cfg" if you are not using SH3Cmdr), look for the following block:

[SUBMARINE1]
902_NbVersion=4
902_Version0=0 ; VIIB
902_Name0=VIIB
902_Month0=6
902_Year0=1941
902_Version1=1 ; VIIC
902_Name1=VIIC
902_Month1=3
902_Year1=1941
902_Version2=2 ; VIIC/41
902_Name2=VIIC/41
902_Month2=6
902_Year2=1944
902_Version3=3 ; VIIC/42
902_Name3=VIIC/42
902_Month3=6 <- CHANGE TO 9
902_Year3=1945 <- CHANGE TO 1939
902_DaysSpentInBase=45

This sets up the VIIC/42 to be recognised as an available sub in 9/39. But this change alone won't get you the sub. You need to link it to a Flotilla in "Flotilla.cfg". So, in "Flotilla.cfg", under "Flotilla0=902", look for the following:

Date00=1939
Month00=9
Starting00=Yes
TypeSub00=0; IIA <- CHANGE TO 1; VIIC
VersionSub00=0 <- CHANGE TO 3

Now you have set the VIIC/42 *as the starting sub* in the 1st Flotilla in 9/39. And it does work - I've done it many times for testing purposes. You can apply this logic to get any sub in any Flotilla at any time (although depending on the Flotilla you may need to also alter the associated NbUboats*, Uboat*_0, Uboat*_1 etc values). So, want an XXI in 1939, easy. An IXB, likewise. Renown cost: nothing.

Question:
After having done the above, have you tried to use the same boat in say, 1943 or 44? Did it still work? I'll wager it hasn't. If so, what else did you do?

Certain subs (C/41, C/42, XXI, ) seem to be coded somewhere which limits how many years you can use them, regardless of what you do to the CFG files.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by trebby

I did it...
IXB now available in 9/1939. Historically, only IXA was available at
that time so I added U37-41 in the U-numbers section of SH3Commander.
Will see if it offers these Uboat numbers in career mode...

You will need to edit the SH3Cmdr version of the SSTypeIXB.cfg file (under ..\SH3 Commander\U-boat\IXB\data\Roster\German\Submarine). This may be what you mean, but just in case.

Originally Posted by trebby

Wil edit less feul/shorter range via Timetravellers SH3 crush depth mod.
Other than range I dont think theres much difference between the two.

Yes, just to clarify for others, my steps above are just the basics to get you the sub "as is". Depending on what you are attempting to achieve, you may need to adjust values in other files for full accuracy.

Originally Posted by trebby

Lastly, tried to make VIIC available from oct 1940 (first front use by U-93/Claus Korth)
This only PARTLY succesful; the VIIC is available for the whole of 1940, also in the early months were I would like the VIIB to be active.
It seems to me that I can only give ONE sub type per YEAR to the flotilla.cfg .....
Yet I am able to have both the VIIC and VIIC41 and VIIC42 in 1944 in 7th flotilla. I recon because the game sees them all as VIIC subvariants?

Why else cant I have both VIIB and VIIC in 1940 in the same flotilla?

Yes, this is another SH3 limitation soon to be opened up by SH3Cmdr. By default, each year has a specific start month and sub type. Without SH3Cmdr, if you start a 1941 career in the 1st Flotilla, you will get a starting sub of VIIC and a starting month of March. Careers will never start in Jan or Feb so technically you wouldn't get this sub in those months. SH3Cmdr gives the ability to adjust the start month, but in the current version you are still limited to the starting sub set for that year, hence what you are experiencing. With the next release of SH3Cmdr, you will be able to pick any sub and variant that is available *to the selected Flotilla* up to the selected career start date. Checkout screenshot for example -



Subs will come and go as you adjust the month and year, so the problem you are experiencing now will disappear. That is, using your example, if a user chose 10/40 as the start date, the list would include both the VIIB and VIIC, if they chose 9/40 the list would only include the VIIB.

[trebby]

Ducimus,

In order to keep the "A-Historical-Puker-Factor" low I created only a limited time frame of 2 months of availability within only 1 flotilla, so I the careergame would offer me the potential to obtain the boat. (as described above)
I am still wrestling to implement Historical type IXA U-numbers for the IXB in 9/39 (actually only IXAs U-37,38,39,40,41 were commisioned back then) so as to use them as IXA. I use Timetravellers Crush depth tool to reduce their range as they had slighttly less feul capacity then the IXB.
I also did not manage to have the VIIB available until oct 1940 and then have the game offer the VIIC from then on. It does give me the VIIC as a choice for the WHOLE of 1940, which is A-Historical again....

So to answer your quest, I really have no idea as I havent tested it yet...
nor would I personally want to "release" a XXI in 1941 or so.
You would need step 2, coupling a flotilla to the boat you want, as well I think for it to work.

Cheers, trebby

[trebby]

JScones,

WOW thats great news! That would once again be a great improvement to the game.
I noticed on your current version (I have 2.3) that when selecting a career, you automatically get a subnumber of a boat actually firstly assigned to combat in that month (I use Clay Blairs exellent "Hitlers Uboat War" for that). A work of love this Tool Id say!

I know you will share it "when its done" but do you have a clue as to when?

Cheerio, trebby.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Question:
After having done the above, have you tried to use the same boat in say, 1943 or 44? Did it still work? I'll wager it hasn't. If so, what else did you do?

Certain subs (C/41, C/42, XXI, ) seem to be coded somewhere which limits how many years you can use them, regardless of what you do to the CFG files.

To be honest, I've never had any problems. Have you adjusted the associated roster files perhaps? Other than that I'd need to try to remember what changes I've made to what files because as part of SH3Cmdr testing I've played around with these files *a lot*. I do recall at one point having an XXI in Sep 39 with a IIA conning tower...quite humourous actually...but easily fixed. I definitely haven't encountered the problem you are experiencing, but then, perhaps my testing has not been as specific to this issue as yours has been. I am certain that I haven't tweaked any binary files - all changes have been made to the myriad of cfg files.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by trebby

I noticed on your current version (I have 2.3) that when selecting a career, you automatically get a subnumber of a boat actually firstly assigned to combat in that month (I use Clay Blairs exellent "Hitlers Uboat War" for that). A work of love this Tool Id say!

Total credit to Beery for this! He's spent *a lot* of time researching these things and laboriously modifying game files!

Originally Posted by trebby

I know you will share it "when its done" but do you have a clue as to when?

Closer to Christmas. You'll also notice that the next release will allow you to enter a starting U-boat number, either manually or by selecting from an historically accurate list of numbers relevent to the selected sub type.

Hehe...and these aren't even the big ticket items...

[trebby]

Great news!

That will make for a nice Santa gift (would sent you a piece of the 50cm of snow fallen over here to Down Under to get into the mood)

Using yuor directions, I have just started a new career in IXA U-38, 9/39 and tweaking the IXB range.
The game menus ofcourse still show "IXB" for boat and I have been told that changing the menus to also read "IXA" does not justify the effort it would take....
Guess tweaking the speed is more difficult (only less than 1 knot speed difference anyway) to do...or is it?

Cheers, trebby.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by trebby

Guess tweaking the speed is more difficult (only less than 1 knot speed difference anyway) to do...or is it?

Not at all. Check out TimeTraveller's SH3 Mini Tweaker. I believe it should solve your problem. Its "bigger brother" SH3 File Analyzer definitely will.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by JScones

...in "Flotilla.cfg", under "Flotilla0=902", look for the following:

Date00=1939
Month00=9
Starting00=Yes
TypeSub00=0; IIA <- CHANGE TO 1; VIIC
VersionSub00=0 <- CHANGE TO 3

Just FYI - that last value should be 2. 3 is the Type XXI.

[trebby]

OK JScones,

I have that mod but never used it. Ill give it a try, thanks.



Beery,

Funny enough I used "3" as a value for "Versionsub" and it released the VIIC/42 for me...Did not check on "2" yet.


Cheers trebby

[Beery]

Originally Posted by trebby

OK JScones,

I have that mod but never used it. Ill give it a try, thanks.



Beery,

Funny enough I used "3" as a value for "Versionsub" and it released the VIIC/42 for me...Did not check on "2" yet.


Cheers trebby

Hmm. That's strange. The XXI is definitely 3.