Question for Stieblers Radar detection fix

trebby · 11-18-05, 04:05 AM

Hi!,

Just D/L Stieblers interesting Sensor mod. Imho, this is a very important feature of the game which till now was neglected.
Stiebler lists all Electronic detectors used with parameters.

My question: are the detectors that were not included in original sh3 now included? ( Wanze detector for example) or does it improve on existing sensors only?

Very curious on this one, as the scientific battle was as important as anything and this might show it...

Cheers trebby

gdogghenrikson · 11-18-05, 04:09 AM

I believe the readme says they are

Stiebler · 11-18-05, 09:26 AM

Trebby asked:

Quote:

My question: are the detectors that were not included in original sh3 now included? ( Wanze detector for example) or does it improve on existing sensors only?

The 'missing' sensors (such as Wanze) are not included in the radar_detection mod. They serve no purpose, which is a pretty good reason not to include them. Wanze, for example, pandered to the German fear that Allied aircraft were homing in on Metox radiations. Since this wasn't actually happening, SH3 doesn't benefit from having Wanze.

The mod improves on the original detectors only; the remainder of the documentation is just a history lesson for those who want the right atmosphere. In comprehensive testing, the mod is extremely effective - provided that you are fitted with the right radar detector at base.

As an aside, I've modified campaign_LND.mis for the next (last) release of RUb to contain a powerful British airbase intended to replicate the stepped-up air attacks by British Coastal Command over the Bay of Biscay from August 1942 to August 1944. You will have to cross the Bay then either mostly submerged, or with an effective radar detector. Then there's no problem.

Stiebler.

jaxa · 11-18-05, 09:56 AM

Stiebler, good work. Will your mod be included in next RUb?
Where did you find all info about these detectors? Books or www sites? Could you list them?

gouldjg · 11-18-05, 10:04 AM

Stiebler

Very well done on taking the time to tackle such an issue.

Are there any other sensor tweaks that you plan to tackle i.e. I am in the midst of getting rid of the pin point lock of DD without making them too dumb.

I could really do with someone else to look at the sensor.dat with Timetravellers tool so as to be able to identify each piece of equipment vi time period.

Any suggested tweaks will then be developed based on a group finding.

At the moment I have been altering the Hydrophone min range as well as some sonar min ranges. This is proving quite successfull but that is for my game style. Others may not feels so hense it is best to be in a team rather than alone.

What we need is a group effort on all the sensors,

1. Establishing each sensor and what it does in what timeframe, limitation in game and possible exploits.

2. Tweaking the faulty and generic sensors ensuring that it is still quite hard to evade locks and deaths can still occurr.

3. Tweaking DC to be more realsistic based i.e. not blowing you up but rather tapping you down.

4. Ensuring that player does not feel that DD have been too dumb (maybe do what IUB does and rid the rookies but not the elites.

5. Making sure a ramming incident kills Uboat.

6. Blending in th best features of the air mod and other mods i.e. yours all into one big pack.

7. Testing all

8. Releasing a super sensor fix.

You seem quite logical in your work and thus may be of benefit to the community to look at other issues.

Have a look at just slightly upping the Hydrophone settings via time travellers tool. I set it to min = 150 and DD no longer turns with me while overhead yet he still gets very close

Very early days but I am sure this can be done in a group effort.

Anybody else who wants to join should shout now.

caspofungin · 11-18-05, 10:07 AM

any info on the interaction between the radar detectors and the vis mod?

Redwine · 11-18-05, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldjg

Have a look at just slightly upping the Hydrophone settings via time travellers tool. I set it to min = 150 and DD no longer turns with me while overhead yet he still gets very close

I cooment that many times before, in U-505 mission, those american DDs, can detect my full rudder turns even when they are just over me. :hmm:

Like as if they have a video camera under keel.

I am using Jungman's AI sensors, he tweak the minimun sensor range to 200m for active sonar, this brings me to think the responsible of this Uber DD behavior is the pasive sonar, y use TT Min Tweaker Tool to change minimun range on hydrophones..... min 200 as in active sonar.

But no way.... they still having a video camera under keel.

or they are linked to my sub by a rope :rotfl:

I am doing some thing wrong, can you help me Gouldjg, wich value you had tweaked ?

Thanks in advance ......Red

gouldjg · 11-18-05, 11:00 AM

I tweaked the main hydrophone setting to 150 min. I left Jungmanns fix except I put it from 60 to 85 arc.

I then proceeded at looking at all the equipment sensors that were aimed for underwater use and anything that had a min range of 10 was changed to 50.

For me this seems to give me the time to turn. I have just uninstalled the game right now so do not have the file or would have sent it to you.

I think the main hydrophone is a generic and there are still other passives inside the file though not history buff enough to tell what is what. Any help here is appreciated.

In either way, I just think everything that was set with a min of 10 is dead wrong so I have took a gamble and changed all equipment that aims under the water. The min settings have been upped to 50 to start.

Since when is underwater equipment any use at 10 mtres. Historically the DD lost everything at 300 yds thus it was a matter of mind games from then on.

Let me load up the game again as I am testing this again tonight. I will send you the file I used for both DC and sensors. Bye the way I set DC presion to 15 and then to one in some test si maybe there is a factor also. And min DC range was upped to 6.5 to nullify close damage a little. I play with dark water so am not interested if the game is landing too close as long as the effect is eventually bumbed down. I just dont like the inability to do various turns out of the DC run.

If it is still not doing it for you then it must be something else i.e. I have removed all armour for sub ???????????

give me some more time, I promise I will share with you unless you find it also.

It was definitly there and solved I am sure of that as I played for 8hr last night through hundreds of attacks.

I was not concerned with the what equipment was what at the time, just concerned with any equipment that was set to underwater searching.

I know your very keen on this subject so maybe you have more luck in pinpointing the actuall uber detector than a random type gamey tester like me.

Field of Dreams

"Tweak it and you shall find what your looking for"

Redwine · 11-18-05, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldjg

I tweaked the main hydrophone setting to 150 min. I left Jungmanns fix except I put it from 60 to 85 arc.

Yes, i changed that value at 200m, but no success.

I think so the solution is in the other topic, into an explanation from Timetraveller.
I seen you was there yet.

Stiebler · 11-18-05, 05:06 PM

Re Jaxa - sources of radar detector data:

Various sources combined -
Roskill's 'War at Sea'
A. Price 'Aircraft versus Submarine'
Roessler 'The U-boat'
C. Blair 'Hitler's U-boat War'
BdU war diary.
Various U-boat war diaries (KTBs) cited in my own book (whose title I won't mention here).

Re GouldJG - proposal for sensors mod group.
Good idea, but I regret I don't have the time to participate myself.

The modified radar detectors will appear in the next issue of RUb - provided Beery remembers!

My objective in improving the radar detectors was to give the SH3 player a chance of escaping the relentless aircraft attacks while retaining any existing mods already added to sensors.dat. Accuracy wasn't really necessary but, since I was doing it, I thought I might as well get it right. Incidentally, there is terrible confusion in the published literature about the radar detectors. No memoirs of former U-boatmen are reliable (all are biased by what BdU told them during the war), and sources in the English language are blighted by translation difficulties. For example, confusion between Borkum and Fliege; between Bug and Wanze.

Stiebler.

11-18-05, 04:05 AM	#1
trebby Medic Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dutchman living in beautiful Austria Posts: 169 Downloads: 212 Uploads: 0	Question for Stieblers Radar detection fix Hi!, Just D/L Stieblers interesting Sensor mod. Imho, this is a very important feature of the game which till now was neglected. Stiebler lists all Electronic detectors used with parameters. My question: are the detectors that were not included in original sh3 now included? ( Wanze detector for example) or does it improve on existing sensors only? Very curious on this one, as the scientific battle was as important as anything and this might show it... Cheers trebby

11-18-05, 04:09 AM	#2
gdogghenrikson Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 978 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I believe the readme says they are __________________ And when you loose control, you'll reap the harvest you have sown.

11-18-05, 09:56 AM	#4
jaxa The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Poland Posts: 1,501 Downloads: 418 Uploads: 0	Stiebler, good work. Will your mod be included in next RUb? Where did you find all info about these detectors? Books or www sites? Could you list them? __________________ SHIII + GWX 3 Gold + V16B1 hardcode fixes + SH3Commander SHIV + OM + OMEGU SHV + WoS

11-18-05, 10:04 AM	#5
gouldjg Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 881 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Stiebler Very well done on taking the time to tackle such an issue. Are there any other sensor tweaks that you plan to tackle i.e. I am in the midst of getting rid of the pin point lock of DD without making them too dumb. I could really do with someone else to look at the sensor.dat with Timetravellers tool so as to be able to identify each piece of equipment vi time period. Any suggested tweaks will then be developed based on a group finding. At the moment I have been altering the Hydrophone min range as well as some sonar min ranges. This is proving quite successfull but that is for my game style. Others may not feels so hense it is best to be in a team rather than alone. What we need is a group effort on all the sensors, 1. Establishing each sensor and what it does in what timeframe, limitation in game and possible exploits. 2. Tweaking the faulty and generic sensors ensuring that it is still quite hard to evade locks and deaths can still occurr. 3. Tweaking DC to be more realsistic based i.e. not blowing you up but rather tapping you down. 4. Ensuring that player does not feel that DD have been too dumb (maybe do what IUB does and rid the rookies but not the elites. 5. Making sure a ramming incident kills Uboat. 6. Blending in th best features of the air mod and other mods i.e. yours all into one big pack. 7. Testing all 8. Releasing a super sensor fix. You seem quite logical in your work and thus may be of benefit to the community to look at other issues. Have a look at just slightly upping the Hydrophone settings via time travellers tool. I set it to min = 150 and DD no longer turns with me while overhead yet he still gets very close Very early days but I am sure this can be done in a group effort. Anybody else who wants to join should shout now. __________________ My Mods Gouldjg's Crew Ability Balancing Mod for SH5 1.2 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=169630

11-18-05, 11:00 AM	#8
gouldjg Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 881 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I tweaked the main hydrophone setting to 150 min. I left Jungmanns fix except I put it from 60 to 85 arc. I then proceeded at looking at all the equipment sensors that were aimed for underwater use and anything that had a min range of 10 was changed to 50. For me this seems to give me the time to turn. I have just uninstalled the game right now so do not have the file or would have sent it to you. I think the main hydrophone is a generic and there are still other passives inside the file though not history buff enough to tell what is what. Any help here is appreciated. In either way, I just think everything that was set with a min of 10 is dead wrong so I have took a gamble and changed all equipment that aims under the water. The min settings have been upped to 50 to start. Since when is underwater equipment any use at 10 mtres. Historically the DD lost everything at 300 yds thus it was a matter of mind games from then on. Let me load up the game again as I am testing this again tonight. I will send you the file I used for both DC and sensors. Bye the way I set DC presion to 15 and then to one in some test si maybe there is a factor also. And min DC range was upped to 6.5 to nullify close damage a little. I play with dark water so am not interested if the game is landing too close as long as the effect is eventually bumbed down. I just dont like the inability to do various turns out of the DC run. If it is still not doing it for you then it must be something else i.e. I have removed all armour for sub ??????????? give me some more time, I promise I will share with you unless you find it also. It was definitly there and solved I am sure of that as I played for 8hr last night through hundreds of attacks. I was not concerned with the what equipment was what at the time, just concerned with any equipment that was set to underwater searching. I know your very keen on this subject so maybe you have more luck in pinpointing the actuall uber detector than a random type gamey tester like me. Field of Dreams "Tweak it and you shall find what your looking for" __________________ My Mods Gouldjg's Crew Ability Balancing Mod for SH5 1.2 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=169630

11-18-05, 10:07 AM	#6
caspofungin Commander Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 459 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 0	any info on the interaction between the radar detectors and the vis mod?

11-18-05, 05:06 PM	#10
Stiebler Fuel Supplier Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,237 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 4	Re Jaxa - sources of radar detector data: Various sources combined - Roskill's 'War at Sea' A. Price 'Aircraft versus Submarine' Roessler 'The U-boat' C. Blair 'Hitler's U-boat War' BdU war diary. Various U-boat war diaries (KTBs) cited in my own book (whose title I won't mention here). Re GouldJG - proposal for sensors mod group. Good idea, but I regret I don't have the time to participate myself. The modified radar detectors will appear in the next issue of RUb - provided Beery remembers! My objective in improving the radar detectors was to give the SH3 player a chance of escaping the relentless aircraft attacks while retaining any existing mods already added to sensors.dat. Accuracy wasn't really necessary but, since I was doing it, I thought I might as well get it right. Incidentally, there is terrible confusion in the published literature about the radar detectors. No memoirs of former U-boatmen are reliable (all are biased by what BdU told them during the war), and sources in the English language are blighted by translation difficulties. For example, confusion between Borkum and Fliege; between Bug and Wanze. Stiebler.