new german boat - propulsion type

[Type941]

Has anyone heard about this new german submarine, that has some water/hydrogen powerplant that allows it to operate much like the nuclear sub, but of course safer? I've seen a clip stream online in tv news, but nothing esle anywhere... Is this may be even old news? hmm... Kapitan?

[Smaragdadler]

Come over here in the DW-section of this boards:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=44340

[Type941]

sweet! thanks!

[Torpedo Fodder]

Bear in mind that AIP drive is not quite like operating "like a nuclear sub". Although it allows recharging the batteries without snorkling or engaging a noisy diesel engine, a sub can only make about 5 knots on AIP, which is why all AIP equipped subs still have a regular diesel engines as well.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Torpedo Fodder

... which is why all AIP equipped subs still have a regular diesel engines as well.

No the Swedes built a sub equipped with only AIP engines. They have two Sterling Cycle engines and two Electric Motors IIRC.

[Torpedo Fodder]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

No the Swedes built a sub equipped with only AIP engines. They have two Sterling Cycle engines and two Electric Motors IIRC.

Must be some kind of prototype/concept model, because as far as I'm aware, the Gotlands, their most modern service SSK are equipped with diesel-electric/AIP hybrid. Perhaps they're planning this for their next-generation A26 subs (based on the cancelled Swedish/Danish Viking-class project). Anyway, it seems to me that this technolegy will need to mature some more before it can actually replace diesel engies as the sole means of power generation/propulsion on production submarines.

[Kapitan]

its about 15 years off i recon

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Torpedo Fodder

Must be some kind of prototype/concept model, because as far as I'm aware, the Gotlands, their most modern service SSK are equipped with diesel-electric/AIP hybrid. Perhaps they're planning this for their next-generation A26 subs (based on the cancelled Swedish/Danish Viking-class project). Anyway, it seems to me that this technolegy will need to mature some more before it can actually replace diesel engies as the sole means of power generation/propulsion on production submarines.

Hmmm I guess your correct. I miss understood some data off the web. b

[Smaragdadler]

Originally Posted by Type941

Has anyone heard about this new german submarine, that has some water/hydrogen powerplant that allows it to operate much like the nuclear sub, but of course safer? ...

Originally Posted by Torpedo Fodder

Bear in mind that AIP drive is not quite like operating "like a nuclear sub". Although it allows recharging the batteries without snorkling or engaging a noisy diesel engine, a sub can only make about 5 knots on AIP, which is why all AIP equipped subs still have a regular diesel engines as well.

But what about U212? On the thread about U212 in DW-Section, Skybird wrote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

The Diesel is very much only an emergency backup. They are not expected to "charge batteries" under normal conditions during a trip, for all energy for board systems and engine is not coming from batteries, but directly from the fuel cells, the traditional diesel-battery-engine-concept cannot be compared to in this case - this is NOT a normal diesel sub with an added fuel cell. The engine is directly powered by the fuel cells. The energy in these fuel cells can only be replenished at harbour, by replacing and/or loading the cylindrical modules that store these ressources (they do indeed look like giant AAA battery cells, ) Normal operation of the the engine and screw is energized by the fuel cell only - always. Top secret propeller and fuel cell makes for so little noise at up to medium speed settings that the sub is described to be "undetectable by contemporary passive sonar even if sensors are just a "Katzensprung" away" (quoting a leading engineer of HDW in an interview with a defense affairs journalist at the beginniong of this year, a guy I once talked to). The same source told him that the "212 is easily the most "non-existing" sub in the water today."
The limited hull size (still much more room than in the 206 and 209) is referring to the roots of the project in the cold war. The 212 hull design was once meant for exclusive Eastern sea operations.

The duration of the sub beeing able to remain submerged without snorkeling or taking ressupplies is top secret, and various sources indicate various time frames from up to 3 weeks to up to 4 months. Since the sub is Germany's top intel gathering platform is is now meant to serve in that role globally, if wanted, and that requires long endurance capabilities. time and again German medias have pointed out that this sub can operate completely indepedent from surface (snorkelling, ressuplying) for "many, many weeks". That'S why some tend to think of it as "a nuclear sub without a nuclear engine."

but whatever - it looks damn sexy.