What can we change and what can we not? DAMAGE/Repair/Death

gouldjg · 10-10-05, 01:44 PM

Hello all modders and community members.

Just a quick thread to gauge your thoughts

I am about to embark on a New Damage model for SH3 but need to establish what tools and methods I could use to get my desired results ultimately being the end of the quick death screen with the chance of nail biting suspense and escapes. This may or may not be possible but I am prepared to spend some time on this project as I feel we can still get better.

I want to find out what files can be changed that may influence the way we have control over damage, flooding and repairs.

I know about zones.cfg but wondered if anyone has discovered anything regards to being able to abolish the repair crew or reduce the numbers or even their effectiveness.

Can we change the level of skill upgrades?

Hase anyone discovered any other files that may be worth looking into?

Has anyone found any file line etc that may influence any of the above?

Is the Hull integrity still a hardcoded issue?

If you have anything to offer even if it is just wants and desires, please share info no matter how irrelevant you may think it would be.

oRGy · 10-10-05, 01:52 PM

Welcome back gouldjg.

Well, I know that the hull integrity meter was hidden by the RuB mod, but other than that I know little so far.

My personal desire is to get little men from explosions bobbing in the water and for debris to stay a little longer. As for the uboat, I tried messing about with the zones.cfg, but with only inconclusive results.

Rubini · 10-10-05, 02:17 PM

Hi gouldjg,

Nice to "see" you again!

I also have plans to work with this issue after conclude my last work on HT mod.

Rubini.

gouldjg · 10-10-05, 02:48 PM

Hi Rubini

I am sure that with yours and others involvement and skills, we can really make some dramatice changes.

Whilst you are doing your HT mod (looking forward to the RUB version btw), I will start testing current RUB damage model and playing with a number of Ideas I have floating in my head concerning flooding.

I know Jungman is also looking into this issue as well so I am hoping we can all get together in some form of co-operative group and totally re-write this issue of the quick death screen as well as other interesting additions or should I also say subtractions.

I want to have more control over the repair section and if that does not work, I want to get rid of it and see if I can balance the sub damage when it is just automatic repairing by crew in quarters. People may not follow me here so I stand ready to abolish the idea of getting rid of repair crew but I do have thoughts that we will find something that can be tweaked for a better game.

I do think that when this cloning of the model issue develops further soon we will be able to spawn survivors etc but that is beyond me at the moment so I think I will stick to what I enjoy doing and that is trying to get the best nail biting swearing at your monitor sub damage immersion.

At the moment I want to get an idea of what modders may have found that could be used to help us achieve this new damage model.

Speak soon (back to testing)

HEMISENT · 10-10-05, 03:47 PM

Welcom back Gouldjg!

Kpt. Lehmann · 10-10-05, 03:59 PM

My two cents... Welcome back and thanks for picking this up gouldjg!

gouldjg wrote:

Do we actually need a repair squad because I know compartments repair themselves when crew are in them only at a lower rate. I just do not know what would happen if we could remove this feature and what possibilities it could give us.

I would say that it is necessary to retain a damage control team for the sake of realism or at least a representation of realism. If we were to get rid of damage control teams, wouldn't it negate the usefulness of the repair skill?

gouldjg · 10-10-05, 05:29 PM

Fair Comment

Personally I could live without a repair crew if it would enable better damage but then again I suppose I would have to test by just not using a repair crew for a while and see if it comes up with anything worth looking into. Unlike last time, I want to explore all possible routes before going down on the quickest enhancement.

Another option could be having it so that if one would choose to put men to the repairs station i.e. emergencies, we maybe could speed up fatigue to have a very unhealthy effect on the men.

This may force people to choose more carefully what they want to allocate to the repairs i.e. 1 man to fix a engine problem to 6 men for emergency flooding. As I understand it, Beery mod allows men carry on working at a reduced pace and this does not necessarily stop departments from running. Am I right or wrong?

Again, another long test but it may have a good effect in game. I like this idea as it can simulate extreme tiredness, traumatic stress and maybe some organisation loss on board. I just think it is very boring being able to throw loads of men onto repairs with not a care in the world apart from stop that leak.

Just out of plain interest and for experimental reasons, what do I adjust to make repairs more energy consuming?

I may draw a blank but it may be worth a look into

What are your thoughts?

Kalach · 10-10-05, 11:24 PM

While you're poking through all the damage files is there any chance you could find a way to add random mechanical breakdowns and such :hmm: .
I think the energy consuption rates for different compartments is in the basic.cfg

Beery · 10-11-05, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldjg

I want to find out what files can be changed that may influence the way we have control over damage, flooding and repairs.

I think the answer to this lies in Zones.cfg. If we can find a way for the U-boat to start sinking as soon as there's flooding anywhere in the boat we'll have your nailbiting suspense and escapes, plus fewer instant death screens, and more U-boats being crushed to death rather than being instantly killed by a DC. The variables for flotation and flotability are the ones to tweak.

Kpt. Lehmann · 10-11-05, 12:30 AM

Let us be careful though not to wind up with naturally sinking U-boats.

CCIP · 10-11-05, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beery

Quote:

Originally Posted by gouldjg

I want to find out what files can be changed that may influence the way we have control over damage, flooding and repairs.

I think the answer to this lies in Zones.cfg. If we can find a way for the U-boat to start sinking as soon as there's flooding anywhere in the boat we'll have your nailbiting suspense and escapes, plus fewer instant death screens, and more U-boats being crushed to death rather than being instantly killed by a DC. The variables for flotation and flotability are the ones to tweak.

Well, gouldjg is the one whose instructions I used for producing the RUb 1.43/1.44 zones files.

I have recently reduced the floatability values - thus making the sub less prone to sinking down due to damage - but I'm sure it could be tweaked further.

gouldjg -

Again, just want to draw your attention to what I've done based on your work in RUb 1.43/44. Me and Teddy Bar have done quite a number of tests on this. I've also adjusted certain weapons, especially surface guns, to be more damaging - particularly in terms of hull integrity. The goal all along has been to balance the 3 key mods - RealDC, AirPower, and your Hollywood work - into RUb for a more realistic survival experience.

Myself, Beery and Teddy Bar have tested this quite extensively and, to a point, the model proved rather satisfactory. This, along with some sensor mods based largely on Jungman's work, are the basis of what Beery calls the "ASW mod" that's included in RUb.

More testing would be great - as would be more tweaks. More alternatives for those who aren't neccesarily out for straight realism would also be great - I'm sure some would like to see the "flying sailors" again

But just play around and abuse my model for a while, see what you find wrong there and go from there - no need to reinvent the bicycle

Beery · 10-11-05, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Let us be careful though not to wind up with naturally sinking U-boats.

Hehe, somehow I don't think a mod with naturally sinking U-boats would be very popular.

Fidd2 · 10-11-05, 08:54 AM

When near to crush-depth, the internal lights fail, I'd be most interested to see this effect used more often when under DC attack. No idea if this is possible.

Kpt. Lehmann · 10-11-05, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidd2

When near to crush-depth, the internal lights fail, I'd be most interested to see this effect used more often when under DC attack. No idea if this is possible.

Cool idea! ...or "intermittant" failure, where they flicker on and off a couple of times with near DC misses.

gouldjg · 10-11-05, 11:17 AM

CCIP

Hi again,

No fear mate, I have no intention to go rushing in and throwing out another mod without first checking the work that has been done so far. Up to now I like the feel of what you and others have done so far.

I need to get the feel for a few days before tweaking this further. I know there is more that can be done but we are at a stage now where many are happy with plane damage, dc etc and these goal posts no longer move that much.

So it is just a matter of getting what we have all learned and then deciding whether or not we can make anything and also if it is worth time being spent on it.

I know many do not even get spotted so this mod is unimportant for them.

Concerning the blinking lights, was there not a line somewhwere where we could cause glass to break earlier than it does now?.

Anyway, I am hanging back to Rubini finnishes his current project and seeing what he and Jungman have to suggest. Until then, I am actually going to play the game for a while even though I still cannot get rid of my suicidal urges.

10-10-05, 01:44 PM	#1
gouldjg Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 881 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	What can we change and what can we not? DAMAGE/Repair/Death Hello all modders and community members. Just a quick thread to gauge your thoughts I am about to embark on a New Damage model for SH3 but need to establish what tools and methods I could use to get my desired results ultimately being the end of the quick death screen with the chance of nail biting suspense and escapes. This may or may not be possible but I am prepared to spend some time on this project as I feel we can still get better. I want to find out what files can be changed that may influence the way we have control over damage, flooding and repairs. I know about zones.cfg but wondered if anyone has discovered anything regards to being able to abolish the repair crew or reduce the numbers or even their effectiveness. Can we change the level of skill upgrades? Hase anyone discovered any other files that may be worth looking into? Has anyone found any file line etc that may influence any of the above? Is the Hull integrity still a hardcoded issue? If you have anything to offer even if it is just wants and desires, please share info no matter how irrelevant you may think it would be.

10-10-05, 03:47 PM	#5
HEMISENT Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 1,052 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	Welcom back Gouldjg! __________________ Nuke 'em till they glow!

10-10-05, 03:59 PM	#6
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 6,992 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	My two cents... Welcome back and thanks for picking this up gouldjg! gouldjg wrote: Do we actually need a repair squad because I know compartments repair themselves when crew are in them only at a lower rate. I just do not know what would happen if we could remove this feature and what possibilities it could give us. I would say that it is necessary to retain a damage control team for the sake of realism or at least a representation of realism. If we were to get rid of damage control teams, wouldn't it negate the usefulness of the repair skill? __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

10-11-05, 12:30 AM	#10
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 6,992 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	Let us be careful though not to wind up with naturally sinking U-boats. __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

10-10-05, 01:52 PM	#2
oRGy Crusty Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 648 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Welcome back gouldjg. Well, I know that the hull integrity meter was hidden by the RuB mod, but other than that I know little so far. My personal desire is to get little men from explosions bobbing in the water and for debris to stay a little longer. As for the uboat, I tried messing about with the zones.cfg, but with only inconclusive results.

10-10-05, 02:17 PM	#3
Rubini Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: São Paulo Brazil Posts: 2,728 Downloads: 132 Uploads: 0	Hi gouldjg, Nice to "see" you again! I also have plans to work with this issue after conclude my last work on HT mod. Rubini.

10-10-05, 02:48 PM	#4
gouldjg Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 881 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Hi Rubini I am sure that with yours and others involvement and skills, we can really make some dramatice changes. Whilst you are doing your HT mod (looking forward to the RUB version btw), I will start testing current RUB damage model and playing with a number of Ideas I have floating in my head concerning flooding. I know Jungman is also looking into this issue as well so I am hoping we can all get together in some form of co-operative group and totally re-write this issue of the quick death screen as well as other interesting additions or should I also say subtractions. I want to have more control over the repair section and if that does not work, I want to get rid of it and see if I can balance the sub damage when it is just automatic repairing by crew in quarters. People may not follow me here so I stand ready to abolish the idea of getting rid of repair crew but I do have thoughts that we will find something that can be tweaked for a better game. I do think that when this cloning of the model issue develops further soon we will be able to spawn survivors etc but that is beyond me at the moment so I think I will stick to what I enjoy doing and that is trying to get the best nail biting swearing at your monitor sub damage immersion. At the moment I want to get an idea of what modders may have found that could be used to help us achieve this new damage model. Speak soon (back to testing)

10-10-05, 05:29 PM	#7
gouldjg Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 881 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Fair Comment Personally I could live without a repair crew if it would enable better damage but then again I suppose I would have to test by just not using a repair crew for a while and see if it comes up with anything worth looking into. Unlike last time, I want to explore all possible routes before going down on the quickest enhancement. Another option could be having it so that if one would choose to put men to the repairs station i.e. emergencies, we maybe could speed up fatigue to have a very unhealthy effect on the men. This may force people to choose more carefully what they want to allocate to the repairs i.e. 1 man to fix a engine problem to 6 men for emergency flooding. As I understand it, Beery mod allows men carry on working at a reduced pace and this does not necessarily stop departments from running. Am I right or wrong? Again, another long test but it may have a good effect in game. I like this idea as it can simulate extreme tiredness, traumatic stress and maybe some organisation loss on board. I just think it is very boring being able to throw loads of men onto repairs with not a care in the world apart from stop that leak. Just out of plain interest and for experimental reasons, what do I adjust to make repairs more energy consuming? I may draw a blank but it may be worth a look into What are your thoughts?

10-10-05, 11:24 PM	#8
Kalach Weps Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 366 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	While you're poking through all the damage files is there any chance you could find a way to add random mechanical breakdowns and such :hmm: . I think the energy consuption rates for different compartments is in the basic.cfg

10-11-05, 08:54 AM	#13
Fidd2 Seaman Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 31 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	When near to crush-depth, the internal lights fail, I'd be most interested to see this effect used more often when under DC attack. No idea if this is possible.

10-11-05, 11:17 AM	#15
gouldjg Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 881 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	CCIP Hi again, No fear mate, I have no intention to go rushing in and throwing out another mod without first checking the work that has been done so far. Up to now I like the feel of what you and others have done so far. I need to get the feel for a few days before tweaking this further. I know there is more that can be done but we are at a stage now where many are happy with plane damage, dc etc and these goal posts no longer move that much. So it is just a matter of getting what we have all learned and then deciding whether or not we can make anything and also if it is worth time being spent on it. I know many do not even get spotted so this mod is unimportant for them. Concerning the blinking lights, was there not a line somewhwere where we could cause glass to break earlier than it does now?. Anyway, I am hanging back to Rubini finnishes his current project and seeing what he and Jungman have to suggest. Until then, I am actually going to play the game for a while even though I still cannot get rid of my suicidal urges.