P3-Orion: How to triangulate/target ESM-only contacts?

randutoo · 10-07-05, 10:23 AM

I've tried figuring this out on my own for a while now, but I'm stumped. Playing the Campaign:North Korea mission in a P-3 Orion, I'm tasked to damage the airport and take out (or provide uplink data for) the SSM sites. I have no problem detecting and ID'ing the ESM emissions from SAM sites and the airport, but of course this only gives me a Line Of Bearing, with a max-limit from Ownship that leaves the mark in the middle of the ocean at point of first detection.

It's kind of funny clicking on the detected airport and seeing it floating way up in the air over the water, but not very helpful

Naturally the closer I get to shore the closer the mark gets, and eventually way inland. And then I'm in range of the SAMs.

I've tried to figure out some way to triangulate but I can only draw circles on the navmap, no lines. I try the 'R' key since it says it's a ruler, but all it does is draw a circle that's the same as the 'draw circle' tool, and disappears when I release the mouse (yes, show lines is on). I can wait for the task force to attack the targets but that's not as much fun as shooting my own missles

Show Link Data is on, and the sites aren't on the link since that's MY task hehe.

For what it's worth I had the same problem in the previous mission, Strait of Malacca, with same platform/task. I resorted to Show Truth On since I couldn't figure this out

Any help/advice would be appreciated. Great game, but a heckuva steep learning curve, and I have a ways to climb yet

-Randu

OneShot · 10-07-05, 12:00 PM

Try the following : Mark the contact on ESM, then turn around 90Â° to your right or left and fly for 5 to 10nm, then mark the contact anew on ESM. That should give you are crossbearing on the target. Unfortunatly the point where those lines will cross most likely wont be the exact position of your target, just the general position. Still you can place a manual contact at the estimated position, define it as SAM site and give it your best shot.

randutoo · 10-07-05, 12:09 PM

I thought of that too, but when I make the second mark at the ESM station it erases the LOB from the first one, since it's only updating a current mark and not creating a new one. Or am I missing something here :hmm: Sure would be nice if the ruler actually worked heh..

Molon Labe · 10-07-05, 12:35 PM

Create two or three marks along the first esm line before you make the second.

MaHuJa · 10-08-05, 12:48 AM

Or switch to the magic bullet...

Use the IR cam along the bearing of the esm line, and try locating the object in question.

Otherwise marking along the first line is your best option - since we don't have a line drawing tool within the game itself.

randutoo · 10-08-05, 03:06 AM

Yeah I tried the IR cam too but can't get close enough to get a visual without triggering a SAM attack. I guess I could try making marks but it doesn't sound very accurate. Ah well I just sat back and waited for the task force to take out the targets. I just thought maybe there was a more specific way of targeting these things and I hadn't thought of it yet, especially since the task force ships are hitting these things supposedly based only on my LOB to targets

:hmm:

Thanks for the help though, this place has been a treasure mine of info and tips

swimsalot · 10-09-05, 09:55 AM

I have the same problem with the mission Straits of Malacca; I tried making marks on LOB from ESM and making turns and more marks, to achieve a cross-check, but all I get is an area of maybe 1nm. Wasted many missiles without impacting the site.
IR camera range appears to be much less than range of enemy sma site.

So has anyone made it thru that part of the campaign without Show Truth enabled?

MaHuJa · 10-09-05, 07:43 PM

...yeah, even as p-3.

The thing is, for the ssm sites you might as well use your "mavericks" - tend to do the job well, as they home on the target itself regardless of the accuracy of your solution.

(I believe that if the solution pointed the other way than the actual target bearing it would turn)

Just carry as many of them as you can, then launch them at the target ssm sites.

MaHuJa · 10-09-05, 07:48 PM

I'm gonna try that now, I think - I'll even put it up on freegamecam.

MaHuJa · 10-09-05, 09:15 PM

Done.

The lack of a way to locate the exact position of a stationary unit by esm is alleviated a lot by the magicericks abilities.

On the other hand, I marked a sam site with the IRcam at 10nm. (The range of the missiles is supposed to be 13.5 nm) - I was at some 13000 ft at the time.

Promoting it to the link, it was taken care of by TLAMs launched from ships and subs. Together with the airfield it was protecting.

Further you should know that the missile alarm doesn't tell you *much* - there's a hostile missile in the air, now or recent past (or potentially future? I don't know), headed for you or something else.

I recommend you launch 2 magicericks on SAM site esm contacts, and if they hit, fly closer and designate with the ircam, promote, and let the tlams do the job for you.

10-07-05, 10:23 AM	#1
randutoo Nub Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	P3-Orion: How to triangulate/target ESM-only contacts? I've tried figuring this out on my own for a while now, but I'm stumped. Playing the Campaign:North Korea mission in a P-3 Orion, I'm tasked to damage the airport and take out (or provide uplink data for) the SSM sites. I have no problem detecting and ID'ing the ESM emissions from SAM sites and the airport, but of course this only gives me a Line Of Bearing, with a max-limit from Ownship that leaves the mark in the middle of the ocean at point of first detection. It's kind of funny clicking on the detected airport and seeing it floating way up in the air over the water, but not very helpful Naturally the closer I get to shore the closer the mark gets, and eventually way inland. And then I'm in range of the SAMs. I've tried to figure out some way to triangulate but I can only draw circles on the navmap, no lines. I try the 'R' key since it says it's a ruler, but all it does is draw a circle that's the same as the 'draw circle' tool, and disappears when I release the mouse (yes, show lines is on). I can wait for the task force to attack the targets but that's not as much fun as shooting my own missles Show Link Data is on, and the sites aren't on the link since that's MY task hehe. For what it's worth I had the same problem in the previous mission, Strait of Malacca, with same platform/task. I resorted to Show Truth On since I couldn't figure this out Any help/advice would be appreciated. Great game, but a heckuva steep learning curve, and I have a ways to climb yet -Randu

10-07-05, 12:00 PM	#2
OneShot Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 956 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Try the following : Mark the contact on ESM, then turn around 90Â° to your right or left and fly for 5 to 10nm, then mark the contact anew on ESM. That should give you are crossbearing on the target. Unfortunatly the point where those lines will cross most likely wont be the exact position of your target, just the general position. Still you can place a manual contact at the estimated position, define it as SAM site and give it your best shot. __________________ All the things you always wanted to know about Dangerous Waters but never dared to ask!

10-07-05, 12:09 PM	#3
randutoo Nub Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I thought of that too, but when I make the second mark at the ESM station it erases the LOB from the first one, since it's only updating a current mark and not creating a new one. Or am I missing something here :hmm: Sure would be nice if the ruler actually worked heh..

10-07-05, 12:35 PM	#4
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	Create two or three marks along the first esm line before you make the second.

10-08-05, 12:48 AM	#5
MaHuJa Sonar Guy Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 59.96156N 11.02255E Posts: 385 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Or switch to the magic bullet... Use the IR cam along the bearing of the esm line, and try locating the object in question. Otherwise marking along the first line is your best option - since we don't have a line drawing tool within the game itself.

10-08-05, 03:06 AM	#6
randutoo Nub Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Yeah I tried the IR cam too but can't get close enough to get a visual without triggering a SAM attack. I guess I could try making marks but it doesn't sound very accurate. Ah well I just sat back and waited for the task force to take out the targets. I just thought maybe there was a more specific way of targeting these things and I hadn't thought of it yet, especially since the task force ships are hitting these things supposedly based only on my LOB to targets :hmm: Thanks for the help though, this place has been a treasure mine of info and tips

10-09-05, 09:55 AM	#7
swimsalot Helmsman Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle, wa usa Posts: 102 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I have the same problem with the mission Straits of Malacca; I tried making marks on LOB from ESM and making turns and more marks, to achieve a cross-check, but all I get is an area of maybe 1nm. Wasted many missiles without impacting the site. IR camera range appears to be much less than range of enemy sma site. So has anyone made it thru that part of the campaign without Show Truth enabled?

10-09-05, 07:43 PM	#8
MaHuJa Sonar Guy Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 59.96156N 11.02255E Posts: 385 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	...yeah, even as p-3. The thing is, for the ssm sites you might as well use your "mavericks" - tend to do the job well, as they home on the target itself regardless of the accuracy of your solution. (I believe that if the solution pointed the other way than the actual target bearing it would turn) Just carry as many of them as you can, then launch them at the target ssm sites.

10-09-05, 07:48 PM	#9
MaHuJa Sonar Guy Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 59.96156N 11.02255E Posts: 385 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I'm gonna try that now, I think - I'll even put it up on freegamecam.

10-09-05, 09:15 PM	#10
MaHuJa Sonar Guy Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 59.96156N 11.02255E Posts: 385 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Done. The lack of a way to locate the exact position of a stationary unit by esm is alleviated a lot by the magicericks abilities. On the other hand, I marked a sam site with the IRcam at 10nm. (The range of the missiles is supposed to be 13.5 nm) - I was at some 13000 ft at the time. Promoting it to the link, it was taken care of by TLAMs launched from ships and subs. Together with the airfield it was protecting. Further you should know that the missile alarm doesn't tell you much - there's a hostile missile in the air, now or recent past (or potentially future? I don't know), headed for you or something else. I recommend you launch 2 magicericks on SAM site esm contacts, and if they hit, fly closer and designate with the ircam, promote, and let the tlams do the job for you.