Friendly Fire Deckgun/Flack bug + Fix

10-07-05, 07:23 AM

For those of you who have experianced the shock of your deckgun targeting Friendly units plus neutrals and indeed even your Flack guns shooting down Friendly Aircraft - or even worse shooting other players online.

Well stress no more. The BUG is in the AI_sensor.dat file. Its the VISUAL RANGE setting that does this. Why I have no bloody idea.

Ok, the default range is 6000m, now a few ppl wanted the AI (mostly warships) to open fire at a longer range. Easy they thought, just up the visual range and presto, long range Naval Gun Fire. So they upped it to something like 8000-10000m.........Wrong !!!

I played with this today and well the resaults were interesting to say the least.

With a range setting of 8000m, my DG & Flack did indeed shoot friendly units. At 10000m my Radio Op would treat Any friendly Taskforce as an Enemy Taskforce BUT said Friendly Taskforce AND a Enemy Taskforce completely ignored each other at 200m - yes you read it right 200M. They both happily sailed 1 fleet right threw the other. And to top it all off even when I surfaced in the middle of all this my Sub was totaly ignored. I even Sunk the KGV and the Nelson but not 1's was I shot at or even approuched by any enemy ship.

Now why the hell the AI_sensor.dat has this effect I can't say. Why it would make your very own DG/Flack Target friendlys is completely beyond me. See all your own boats sensor suit is contained inside the sensor.dat file and NOT the AI_sensor.dat file, so by rights any changes that are made to the AI_sensor.dat should have NO effect upon your very own sub and its crew.

So the fix is this, for all those who have modded the visual range in their AI_sensor.dat file to a value greater than 6000m, guess what, you have to put it back to 6000m. Sorry but its something that seems to be hard coded into the game. Now IF on the other hand you dont mind the odd friendly TK or the odd neutral sunk, by all means leave your AI_sensor.dat files visual range as is.

The Avon Lady · 10-07-05, 08:15 AM

Interesting.

Is this bug introduced by the game itself or by specific mods? What about RUb, for example?

10-07-05, 09:58 AM

Its just any alteration to the visual range in AI_sensor.dat thats to high as far as I'm aware. :hmm:

As for rub (ewww) no idea - I dont use it and its very unlikely I ever will.

chaos · 10-07-05, 10:11 AM

Great find there Gibs

so if we change it to 6000m or less the friendly shooting should stop?

oRGy · 10-07-05, 12:54 PM

That's really bizarre, and rather a shame.

Maybe its something to do with the deckgun selection range, which is in one of the cfg files - main.cfg I think?

Its also inconsistent with my results.

I've had a custom mission to test out the 12km ai range - the hipper and the bismarck versus two dido light cruisers, with me in the middle, and they engaged each other at 12km, ignoring me.

Also, the Bismarck single mission works as expected. So does the Narvik one.

So the taskforces passing each other at 200m sounds very strange.

I'll have to mess with the cfg files and do some tests.

Pants · 10-07-05, 05:41 PM

I have noticed that on bismarck map the german navy always opens fire first and both sides the big guns 16' 15' 14' only open fire when within 4000m but the smaller 5' guns open fire at longer ranges 6000m +

Spike · 10-07-05, 07:30 PM

This game bug was introduced in the last patch,was hoping would be fixed in the next patch,(sure)so something in the game changed to make this happen.It's a shame the game is not being supported as it should be(flash back to SH2).This makes a potentially great game fall short.This is a very annoying bug.Like the one AA gun firing only.They won't us to buy the games,but after purchasing,no more support.Like buying a game,only to find,it's not all that.Unless it's a hugely popular game,don't expect much.To bad, we all waited a long time for this to come out.I understand cost and profit,but to leave so many obvious bugs unfixed,leaves one wondering,why.

BobV_07 · 10-08-05, 11:53 AM

Ahhhh, Gibs the mod master! Another nice find. Thanks mate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

This game bug was introduced in the last patch,was hoping would be fixed in the next patch,(sure)so something in the game changed to make this happen.It's a shame the game is not being supported as it should be(flash back to SH2).This makes a potentially great game fall short.This is a very annoying bug.Like the one AA gun firing only.They won't us to buy the games,but after purchasing,no more support.Like buying a game,only to find,it's not all that.Unless it's a hugely popular game,don't expect much.To bad, we all waited a long time for this to come out.I understand cost and profit,but to leave so many obvious bugs unfixed,leaves one wondering,why.

Totally agreed! If they even make SH4, I will not be so hasty to purchase it. Do me wrong once, shame on you. Do me wrong twice, shame on me!

oRGy · 10-10-05, 01:50 PM

Hi!

I did a few tests today. A Revenge (or was it KGV?) attacking from the West, 13km away a few Flottenbegleiters and a Type 34, with me observing to the south.

Both these groups were organised as task forces.

My AI_Visual range is 12km.

First, indeed my deck gun crew engaged friendly units with aplomb until I told them to cease fire. Was rather angry at them.

The surface ships engaged each other at 12km.

Except - the main 4 turret gun (on the kgv class I think, on the front, don't know the inches - but its the biggie), on the British BB didn't start firing until German units closed to 4km. All secondary armament was firing away at 12km. This must be a bug in the definition of the guns themselves...

Also, I have played several campaigns and I get friendly/enemy taskforces reported by my radio operator as normal. I can only conclude that the bug reported by cdr gibs regarding enemy taskforces not engaging is a misreading or was caused by some other problem.

As for the friendly fire, it doesn't bother me unduly. You just have to keep an eye on what your crew is doing.

oRGy · 10-12-05, 09:39 AM

Also, I just read a thread in the main menu forum of a guy with an unmodded 1.4 who also experiences the friendly fire bug.

Well, except for the vulnerability mod, whatever that does. But I don't think it messes with the range.

Reece · 10-12-05, 11:11 PM

Hi, since this is a DAT file how do you check or edit this?

Thanks in advance.
Reece.

oRGy · 10-13-05, 07:27 AM

With a hex editor. You open AI_Sensors.dat, search for the text string "Visual", and then "MaxRange". The value is a float. Use 010 Hex editor or hex workshop, or whatever.

Kpt. Lehmann · 10-13-05, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

This game bug was introduced in the last patch,was hoping would be fixed in the next patch,(sure)so something in the game changed to make this happen.It's a shame the game is not being supported as it should be(flash back to SH2).This makes a potentially great game fall short.This is a very annoying bug.Like the one AA gun firing only.They won't us to buy the games,but after purchasing,no more support.Like buying a game,only to find,it's not all that.Unless it's a hugely popular game,don't expect much.To bad, we all waited a long time for this to come out.I understand cost and profit,but to leave so many obvious bugs unfixed,leaves one wondering,why.

If this is true, (big guns firing only at shorter ranges) potentially we could extract the relevant files from the previous 'official ubisoft patch' and re-introduce them into the 1.4b patch. However this would raise the question, "What other side effects would be re-born as a result." I wonder if this is worth a try. :hmm:

10-07-05, 07:23 AM	#1
Cdre Gibs Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Friendly Fire Deckgun/Flack bug + Fix For those of you who have experianced the shock of your deckgun targeting Friendly units plus neutrals and indeed even your Flack guns shooting down Friendly Aircraft - or even worse shooting other players online. Well stress no more. The BUG is in the AI_sensor.dat file. Its the VISUAL RANGE setting that does this. Why I have no bloody idea. Ok, the default range is 6000m, now a few ppl wanted the AI (mostly warships) to open fire at a longer range. Easy they thought, just up the visual range and presto, long range Naval Gun Fire. So they upped it to something like 8000-10000m.........Wrong !!! I played with this today and well the resaults were interesting to say the least. With a range setting of 8000m, my DG & Flack did indeed shoot friendly units. At 10000m my Radio Op would treat Any friendly Taskforce as an Enemy Taskforce BUT said Friendly Taskforce AND a Enemy Taskforce completely ignored each other at 200m - yes you read it right 200M. They both happily sailed 1 fleet right threw the other. And to top it all off even when I surfaced in the middle of all this my Sub was totaly ignored. I even Sunk the KGV and the Nelson but not 1's was I shot at or even approuched by any enemy ship. Now why the hell the AI_sensor.dat has this effect I can't say. Why it would make your very own DG/Flack Target friendlys is completely beyond me. See all your own boats sensor suit is contained inside the sensor.dat file and NOT the AI_sensor.dat file, so by rights any changes that are made to the AI_sensor.dat should have NO effect upon your very own sub and its crew. So the fix is this, for all those who have modded the visual range in their AI_sensor.dat file to a value greater than 6000m, guess what, you have to put it back to 6000m. Sorry but its something that seems to be hard coded into the game. Now IF on the other hand you dont mind the odd friendly TK or the odd neutral sunk, by all means leave your AI_sensor.dat files visual range as is.

10-07-05, 08:15 AM	#2
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Interesting. Is this bug introduced by the game itself or by specific mods? What about RUb, for example? __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

10-07-05, 09:58 AM	#3
Cdre Gibs Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Its just any alteration to the visual range in AI_sensor.dat thats to high as far as I'm aware. :hmm: As for rub (ewww) no idea - I dont use it and its very unlikely I ever will.

10-07-05, 10:11 AM	#4
chaos Swabbie Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 13 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Great find there Gibs so if we change it to 6000m or less the friendly shooting should stop?

10-07-05, 12:54 PM	#5
oRGy Crusty Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 648 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	That's really bizarre, and rather a shame. Maybe its something to do with the deckgun selection range, which is in one of the cfg files - main.cfg I think? Its also inconsistent with my results. I've had a custom mission to test out the 12km ai range - the hipper and the bismarck versus two dido light cruisers, with me in the middle, and they engaged each other at 12km, ignoring me. Also, the Bismarck single mission works as expected. So does the Narvik one. So the taskforces passing each other at 200m sounds very strange. I'll have to mess with the cfg files and do some tests.

10-07-05, 05:41 PM	#6
Pants Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Somewhere in the Atlantic Posts: 849 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	I have noticed that on bismarck map the german navy always opens fire first and both sides the big guns 16' 15' 14' only open fire when within 4000m but the smaller 5' guns open fire at longer ranges 6000m +

10-07-05, 07:30 PM	#7
Spike Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: North Atlantic Posts: 134 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	This game bug was introduced in the last patch,was hoping would be fixed in the next patch,(sure)so something in the game changed to make this happen.It's a shame the game is not being supported as it should be(flash back to SH2).This makes a potentially great game fall short.This is a very annoying bug.Like the one AA gun firing only.They won't us to buy the games,but after purchasing,no more support.Like buying a game,only to find,it's not all that.Unless it's a hugely popular game,don't expect much.To bad, we all waited a long time for this to come out.I understand cost and profit,but to leave so many obvious bugs unfixed,leaves one wondering,why.

10-10-05, 01:50 PM	#9
oRGy Crusty Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 648 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Hi! I did a few tests today. A Revenge (or was it KGV?) attacking from the West, 13km away a few Flottenbegleiters and a Type 34, with me observing to the south. Both these groups were organised as task forces. My AI_Visual range is 12km. First, indeed my deck gun crew engaged friendly units with aplomb until I told them to cease fire. Was rather angry at them. The surface ships engaged each other at 12km. Except - the main 4 turret gun (on the kgv class I think, on the front, don't know the inches - but its the biggie), on the British BB didn't start firing until German units closed to 4km. All secondary armament was firing away at 12km. This must be a bug in the definition of the guns themselves... Also, I have played several campaigns and I get friendly/enemy taskforces reported by my radio operator as normal. I can only conclude that the bug reported by cdr gibs regarding enemy taskforces not engaging is a misreading or was caused by some other problem. As for the friendly fire, it doesn't bother me unduly. You just have to keep an eye on what your crew is doing.

10-12-05, 09:39 AM	#10
oRGy Crusty Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 648 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Also, I just read a thread in the main menu forum of a guy with an unmodded 1.4 who also experiences the friendly fire bug. Well, except for the vulnerability mod, whatever that does. But I don't think it messes with the range.

10-12-05, 11:11 PM	#11
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,688 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Hi, since this is a DAT file how do you check or edit this? Thanks in advance. Reece.

10-13-05, 07:27 AM	#12
oRGy Crusty Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 648 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	With a hex editor. You open AI_Sensors.dat, search for the text string "Visual", and then "MaxRange". The value is a float. Use 010 Hex editor or hex workshop, or whatever.