Article on Tomshardware.com

rfunes · 10-01-05, 02:15 PM

http://www.tomshardware.com/column/20051001/index.html

We are not the only people to complain about Starforce... professional game reviewers are doing it too.

Also a poll: If you see another cool game that uses this type of copy-protection (like StarForce), are you going to buy it?

Me: no.

CCIP · 10-01-05, 03:00 PM

It depends on the game. If it's another shoot-em-up, probably not. Unfortuntaly, I will bend if it's something along the lines of SHIII (a sim, in other words).

Starforce hasn't caused me any problems whatsoever thus far with SHIII, but I'm overwhelmingly against it. I hope companies revise their strategy; and I hope articles like that help in convincing them that this is harming sales.

Kpt. Lehmann · 10-01-05, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

Starforce hasn't caused me any problems whatsoever thus far with SHIII, but I'm overwhelmingly against it. I hope companies revise their strategy; and I hope articles like that help in convincing them that this is harming sales.

I haven't had any problems with it either, but totally agree with CCIP. I can only imagine the frustration it has caused for some.

... and how many are out there who "just gave up" on SHIII because of this issue. Money is tight for many and eating $40.00 U.S. is an unacceptable waste.

To state the blindingly obvious... you shouldn't have to work so hard to get a product to work that YOU PAID FOR!!!

Pinetree · 10-01-05, 05:13 PM

Quote:

... and how many are out there who "just gave up" on SHIII because of this issue. Money is tight for many and eating $40.00 U.S. is an unacceptable waste.

I'm one,I had to uninstall it as starforce was playing merry hell with my dvd drive.Shame really, as I really like SH3.

OneTinSoldier · 10-01-05, 05:53 PM

Piracy needs to be stopped, it's just a question of how. Even though Straforce has not caused a problem for me(i downloaded the latest update for it and installed it) I really don't like the idea of installing an 'extra' low-level driver on my system for anti-piracy purposes. But I do not have an answer as to what kind of anti-piracy system is the best.

I have numerous payware addons for MS Flight Simulator, and a number of them require an internet connetion for activation. But I worry about what might happen if I want to use it a few years from now if the company has gone out of business. But I knowingly took my chances when I purchased them anyway. More or less the same with SHIII. It says on the box that it contains technology to prevent piracy that may conflict with some CD-RW DVD-RW drives. I do wish it had said it actually installs a low-level driver into your OS though.

I will also say that, and I suppose it is unfortunate, but I know for a fact that Starforce can be cracked and subverted just like other anti-piracy schemes.

This may be a moot point if the powers that be have their way and get DRM(Digital Rights Management) integrated into the hardware. Maybe DRM is a good way to prevent piracy, but personally it scares me even more with all the possible problems that it may cause. But due to dishonest people it would seem that we need anti-piracy protection schemes or else pirates will just download whatever software they want for free which leaves developers cheated and then they stop developing the kind of killer apps/games that we all want.

So I think we need something, but I do not have the answer as to just what is the ultimate no hassle anti-piracy protection scheme. It seems to me that we live in complicated times.

Regards,

OneTinSoldier

P.S. If are wondering about DRM the Electronic Frontier Foundation has more info on it...

http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/

stratege · 10-03-05, 04:23 AM

I have "definitely" solves any protection problems.

I bought a second hdd, bought a copy of acronis true image, made a clone backup of a minimaliste system, and now, every times i want to use my PC for gaming, i just reclone my machine.

Sound heavy, but this is fine for me. ( yes, of course, it cost me a extra 200 Euro, but my main system is safe from those "starforce and friends" problems )

jumpy · 10-03-05, 05:19 AM

To my knowlege I only have 2 games that run Starfart as copy protection: Silent Hunter3 & Sniper Elite (pc) and whilst I have not had any problems with my dvd burner or anything else related to Starforce 'issues' I am not too keen of the intrusive nature (as I understand it) of such a program and its ability to change parts of your system and the way it opereates. Given that most people 'in the know' consider programs which unknowingly change your system function/settings as malicious spyware etc, perhaps (and by that I'm not merely 'suggesting') games manufacturers/publishers ought to take a long look at how they wish to do business in the future if they want to avoid loosing their trade, due to pissing people off with these pre-emptory 'strikes' against the possibility that a few ppl might try to copy their product. Counter productive in the long term.
I noticed that the box cover of Sniper Elite does not tell you that Starforce is included- neither does the games 'readme' file. If I had had some of the trouble others have shown, I would have been greatful to know this was on the disk- thereby avoiding the useless purchase of a game which is unplayable or damages my system for the sake of securing a few more beertokens for the multi-billion dollar games industry.
I dare say a cigarette packet style 'warning' would not go down too well for sales figures:
WARNING! THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS STARFORCE COPY-PROTECTION SOFTWARE WHICH CAN DAMAGE YOUR HARDWARE AND CAUSE SYSTEM INSTABILITY.
or how about:
STARFORCE CAUSES CTD, DON'T MAKE OTHERS EXPERIENCE YOUR FRUSTRATION.

Der Teddy Bar · 10-03-05, 05:54 AM

I will never buy any game with Starforce or any simular product.

<Moderator edit: Part of message removed. Do not mention such things. - Gizzmoe> I had a spare PC I set up a little while ago for studying that I did put SHIII onto to putter around on as far as the editor went, but that gets rebuilt some times once a week and has no other use other than for me to test things on.

Starforce does not stop piracy, it barely slows it down for the big business pirates. It only screws up 'my' system and stops me from making a backup.

In all seriousness, Starforce and the likewise anti piracy software schemes will force me to move on from gaming as a pass time. After all, I am certain that we have not seen better and continuous support for Starforce protected games? Why not I ask, after all, are they not making 'billions' of extra dollars from these measures...

tycho102 · 10-03-05, 08:23 AM

As I understand it, people that use a burner as their "reader", it causes all kinds of problems. If you have a dvd-reader in your system, then it is less likely to cause problems.

Syxx_Killer · 10-03-05, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tycho102

As I understand it, people that use a burner as their "reader", it causes all kinds of problems. If you have a dvd-reader in your system, then it is less likely to cause problems.

I have a dual-layer DVD burner. Never had an issue with Starforce.

SmokinTep · 10-03-05, 09:16 AM

I've not had a problem with it.

Mowgli · 10-03-05, 11:03 AM

If you want to read some real horror stories and Starforces arrogant atitude towards people who have the temerity to complain about their hardware not working, why not visit Starforce website http://star-force.com/forum/viewforu...03891f50560aa1

They remind of this Government - Don't like what we are doing? Tough.

Do a search on google with "Starforce Problems Silent Hunter" and see how many complaints there are.

You can also download from there if you search long enough a tool to remove their malware from your equipment.

Be advised that Google can be used for searches othaer than Starforce Problems.

Soulcommander · 10-05-05, 05:54 PM

I can't agree more. SDtarforce locks all the threads too.

Why is that because they know that people don't like them ...They say it on the forum themselves. If they had legitimate copy protection that did not harm then no one would be complaining!!!

UBISOFT get a hold of your superiors and end this relatiosnship with Starforce or loose your customers! Thats plain and simple.
Law suites are now starting up too.

Sheppard · 10-05-05, 06:02 PM

The only reason I bought SH3, even though it had Starforce with it,
was because it was a submarine simulator, with a dynamic campaign.

If it had been anything other than that, Starforce would have killed
the sale for me.

Skubber · 10-05-05, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheppard

The only reason I bought SH3, even though it had Starforce with it,
was because it was a submarine simulator, with a dynamic campaign.

If it had been anything other than that, Starforce would have killed
the sale for me.

Ditto for me. I had to think long and hard before I bought the game â€“ and even then SF came close to killing the sale.
Anything other than a subsim, and I would have passed.

View Poll Results: Are you buying more games with StarForce-like copy-protection?
Yes	24	25.00%
No	72	75.00%
Voters: 96. You may not vote on this poll

10-01-05, 02:15 PM	#1
rfunes Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 9 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Article on Tomshardware.com http://www.tomshardware.com/column/20051001/index.html We are not the only people to complain about Starforce... professional game reviewers are doing it too. Also a poll: If you see another cool game that uses this type of copy-protection (like StarForce), are you going to buy it? Me: no.

10-01-05, 03:00 PM	#2
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	It depends on the game. If it's another shoot-em-up, probably not. Unfortuntaly, I will bend if it's something along the lines of SHIII (a sim, in other words). Starforce hasn't caused me any problems whatsoever thus far with SHIII, but I'm overwhelmingly against it. I hope companies revise their strategy; and I hope articles like that help in convincing them that this is harming sales. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

10-01-05, 05:53 PM	#5
OneTinSoldier Sonar Guy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Denver, CO USA Posts: 382 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Piracy needs to be stopped, it's just a question of how. Even though Straforce has not caused a problem for me(i downloaded the latest update for it and installed it) I really don't like the idea of installing an 'extra' low-level driver on my system for anti-piracy purposes. But I do not have an answer as to what kind of anti-piracy system is the best. I have numerous payware addons for MS Flight Simulator, and a number of them require an internet connetion for activation. But I worry about what might happen if I want to use it a few years from now if the company has gone out of business. But I knowingly took my chances when I purchased them anyway. More or less the same with SHIII. It says on the box that it contains technology to prevent piracy that may conflict with some CD-RW DVD-RW drives. I do wish it had said it actually installs a low-level driver into your OS though. I will also say that, and I suppose it is unfortunate, but I know for a fact that Starforce can be cracked and subverted just like other anti-piracy schemes. This may be a moot point if the powers that be have their way and get DRM(Digital Rights Management) integrated into the hardware. Maybe DRM is a good way to prevent piracy, but personally it scares me even more with all the possible problems that it may cause. But due to dishonest people it would seem that we need anti-piracy protection schemes or else pirates will just download whatever software they want for free which leaves developers cheated and then they stop developing the kind of killer apps/games that we all want. So I think we need something, but I do not have the answer as to just what is the ultimate no hassle anti-piracy protection scheme. It seems to me that we live in complicated times. Regards, OneTinSoldier P.S. If are wondering about DRM the Electronic Frontier Foundation has more info on it... http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/ __________________ "Variable this is EasyRhino, do you copy? Over." Loud and clear EasyRhino. "Do we have a gig? Over." That's a Roger, we have a gig. Target is painted, start the music. "Roger that Variable. Into attack. Pickling target. Target is acquired and lit. LGB comin' down!" EasyRhino, circular error probability zero. Impact with High Order Detonation. Thank You, have a nice day.

10-03-05, 04:23 AM	#6
stratege Sparky Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: FRANCE - Grenoble Posts: 152 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I have "definitely" solves any protection problems. I bought a second hdd, bought a copy of acronis true image, made a clone backup of a minimaliste system, and now, every times i want to use my PC for gaming, i just reclone my machine. Sound heavy, but this is fine for me. ( yes, of course, it cost me a extra 200 Euro, but my main system is safe from those "starforce and friends" problems ) __________________ Too many alias ... stratege=clarkfromrainbow

10-03-05, 05:19 AM	#7
jumpy Admiral Join Date: May 2003 Location: Midlands, UK Posts: 2,139 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	To my knowlege I only have 2 games that run Starfart as copy protection: Silent Hunter3 & Sniper Elite (pc) and whilst I have not had any problems with my dvd burner or anything else related to Starforce 'issues' I am not too keen of the intrusive nature (as I understand it) of such a program and its ability to change parts of your system and the way it opereates. Given that most people 'in the know' consider programs which unknowingly change your system function/settings as malicious spyware etc, perhaps (and by that I'm not merely 'suggesting') games manufacturers/publishers ought to take a long look at how they wish to do business in the future if they want to avoid loosing their trade, due to pissing people off with these pre-emptory 'strikes' against the possibility that a few ppl might try to copy their product. Counter productive in the long term. I noticed that the box cover of Sniper Elite does not tell you that Starforce is included- neither does the games 'readme' file. If I had had some of the trouble others have shown, I would have been greatful to know this was on the disk- thereby avoiding the useless purchase of a game which is unplayable or damages my system for the sake of securing a few more beertokens for the multi-billion dollar games industry. I dare say a cigarette packet style 'warning' would not go down too well for sales figures: WARNING! THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS STARFORCE COPY-PROTECTION SOFTWARE WHICH CAN DAMAGE YOUR HARDWARE AND CAUSE SYSTEM INSTABILITY. or how about: STARFORCE CAUSES CTD, DON'T MAKE OTHERS EXPERIENCE YOUR FRUSTRATION. __________________ when you’ve been so long in the desert, any water, no matter how brackish, looks like life

10-03-05, 05:54 AM	#8
Der Teddy Bar Blade Master Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,388 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I will never buy any game with Starforce or any simular product. <Moderator edit: Part of message removed. Do not mention such things. - Gizzmoe> I had a spare PC I set up a little while ago for studying that I did put SHIII onto to putter around on as far as the editor went, but that gets rebuilt some times once a week and has no other use other than for me to test things on. Starforce does not stop piracy, it barely slows it down for the big business pirates. It only screws up 'my' system and stops me from making a backup. In all seriousness, Starforce and the likewise anti piracy software schemes will force me to move on from gaming as a pass time. After all, I am certain that we have not seen better and continuous support for Starforce protected games? Why not I ask, after all, are they not making 'billions' of extra dollars from these measures...

10-03-05, 08:23 AM	#9
tycho102 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,100 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	As I understand it, people that use a burner as their "reader", it causes all kinds of problems. If you have a dvd-reader in your system, then it is less likely to cause problems.

10-03-05, 09:16 AM	#11
SmokinTep Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Suffolk, Virginia Posts: 1,027 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I've not had a problem with it.

10-03-05, 11:03 AM	#12
Mowgli Sparks Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: South Wales Posts: 248 Downloads: 158 Uploads: 0	Starforce If you want to read some real horror stories and Starforces arrogant atitude towards people who have the temerity to complain about their hardware not working, why not visit Starforce website http://star-force.com/forum/viewforu...03891f50560aa1 They remind of this Government - Don't like what we are doing? Tough. Do a search on google with "Starforce Problems Silent Hunter" and see how many complaints there are. You can also download from there if you search long enough a tool to remove their malware from your equipment. Be advised that Google can be used for searches othaer than Starforce Problems. __________________ Now this is the Law of the Jungle -- as old and as true as the sky; And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk the Law runneth forward and back -- For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.

10-05-05, 05:54 PM	#13
Soulcommander Electrician's Mate Join Date: May 2005 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 137 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I can't agree more. SDtarforce locks all the threads too. Why is that because they know that people don't like them ...They say it on the forum themselves. If they had legitimate copy protection that did not harm then no one would be complaining!!! UBISOFT get a hold of your superiors and end this relatiosnship with Starforce or loose your customers! Thats plain and simple. Law suites are now starting up too.

10-05-05, 06:02 PM	#14
Sheppard Captain of the Nautilus Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 146 Downloads: 223 Uploads: 0	The only reason I bought SH3, even though it had Starforce with it, was because it was a submarine simulator, with a dynamic campaign. If it had been anything other than that, Starforce would have killed the sale for me.