Radar and Radar Detectors

Heffalump · 09-25-05, 07:56 AM

Does the game model the fact that German radar detectors didn't always keep up with allied rador technology as it evolved? i.e. is it possible for the Allies to detect me via radar without my detector picking it up?

Here's the situation.

Its Jan 43. I've intercepted a convoy, but it's bad weather: rain and heavy fog. I'd like to stalk it till the weather clears but am worried about getting detected and rammed by an escort. I need to keep fairly close to the convoy or I may lose it on a zig zag. (am playing Rub1.43 and the Improved Convoys mod)

Can I rely on my 'Biscay cross' radar detector, or should I give up the convoy and let it go? I'm a little suspicious because I was bombed by aircraft a week before with no radar detection (although it was good weather and I guess they could have just seen me...)

Heffalump · 09-25-05, 03:49 PM

Guess no one knows?

Oh well. The convoy went out of sonar range while I did my end around and must have changed headings because I failed to intercept them.

...and the lousy fog took 8(!) days to break.

gary1701 · 09-25-05, 04:16 PM

That's strange, I was just about to ask a similar question about radar warning recievers myself. I added it to my type IX as soon as it became available hoping it would help as the air threat increased. First patrol out with it, I got a short warning most of the time just prior to a air attack - fair enough. I was hoping it also applied to surface detection at night and/or fog but experience shows this is not the case unfortunately. So I reckon in the case above it's no use whatsoever.

The strange thing is, second and third patrols out in 1943 with the RWR and many air attacks later, not once did the warning come up - very odd, and it certainly wasn't damaged in any way. Any thoughts on that would be welcome.

Gary

andy_311 · 09-25-05, 06:02 PM

I have played aroud with the Basic.cfg file and put the Radar in Jan 40 and the game played like normal but in heavy weather if on surface or PD it said detecting radar signals.
So my conclusion is this game engine once you got it they got it.

Detritus · 09-25-05, 10:46 PM

My detector works just fine in every weather. Just got a signal of a destroyer at night, clouds overcast, heavy rain, heavy fog, wind 11m/s. June 1943.
Not every plane has a radar. I've seen P-38's and Avengers make a flyby at dusk after 'Aircaft spotted' message without them noticing us With radars they'd been all over us. Also, not every warship necessarily has it, especially when ship mounted radars were just entering service.
There may be something funky with your files. Try Jungman's SensorPak. The detection ranges have been modded- I dunno know to how historically correct, though- and the detectors therefore give you more time to react,especially in medium/high TC.

gary1701 · 09-26-05, 12:29 PM

Hi.

I didn't realise it was meant to work with surface ships, just aircraft in the game. I know that that's not realistic, just thought that was how the game was. Anyway, still no joy, my RWR seems to have died since it's debut patrol. Lots B-24s, PBYs and Sunderlands attacking, which I figure a quantity would be radar equipped, more so than the smaller types, certainly in mid '43.

Last night I was operating around a large convoy, NW of Ireland, at night and in fog, got pounched on several times by modern escorts who turned on me at beyond visual range (had to be radar) and no warning at all. Have yet to have the RWR come up on any surface combatant at all.

The sensor mod mentioned, can't find any reference to it in the downloads section or forum listings - only a sonar mod by the same guy, is it one and the same or if not, can anybody point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Gary

crazyhorse · 09-27-05, 11:11 AM

My radar detector has worked fine until late '44. I don't know if Allied technology has defeated it, or if they now have so many planes in the air that they are finding me visually. All of my aircraft warnings are now visual, and it requires a couple of changes in strategy. One, I have to run at higher surface speeds which allow the boat to dive faster. It's just a few seconds faster, but it makes all the difference with B-24's closing at high speeds and dropping sooner. I also keep the forward torpedo room filled with crew to increase my diving angle. Life was allot easier with the radar detector!

gary1701 · 09-27-05, 06:29 PM

Similar problem then? I noticed that several models of RWR are available at certain points in the campaign so it's fair enough if after a while it's beaten by allied advances (realistic, after all!), and I am only on the first one - but after the very first patrol it goes from near 100% (that probably wasn't realistic but never mind), to zip, not even a single squeek on the next two - something amiss there.

Does putting crew forward really make a difference in the game during a dive?

Gary

crazyhorse · 09-28-05, 09:38 AM

I've used every detector offered up until Nov.'44, and all have worked well, even the first "kite sticks" model. In the early days, if a plane got through it was a fighter not equipped with radar. I've also picked up surface targets, always DD's. I think there was a time when the early detector begame intermittent, and I questioned it's realiability. However, it worked often enough to make it worth having.

I haven't done any "sea trials" to confirm faster diving times because of a fully occuppied forward compartment, but at this point in the war am compelled to do everything imaginable to gain even a half second on the way to 50m in a crash dive. For the last part of '44, that seem's to be the challenge of the game. Crashing to 50m before a bomb or DC hits it's mark is our primary task. Took a hit shortly after leaving St. Nazaire and made the long trip to Bergen with less than 50% hull integrity, and it was a long patrol indeed.

Another small advantage is to leave the snorkel up while running on the surface. It doesn't seem to matter as far as being detected, and when crash diving it gives another second of breath to the diesals for an extra push before the electrics engage.

09-25-05, 07:56 AM	#1
Heffalump A-ganger Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 77 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Radar and Radar Detectors Does the game model the fact that German radar detectors didn't always keep up with allied rador technology as it evolved? i.e. is it possible for the Allies to detect me via radar without my detector picking it up? Here's the situation. Its Jan 43. I've intercepted a convoy, but it's bad weather: rain and heavy fog. I'd like to stalk it till the weather clears but am worried about getting detected and rammed by an escort. I need to keep fairly close to the convoy or I may lose it on a zig zag. (am playing Rub1.43 and the Improved Convoys mod) Can I rely on my 'Biscay cross' radar detector, or should I give up the convoy and let it go? I'm a little suspicious because I was bombed by aircraft a week before with no radar detection (although it was good weather and I guess they could have just seen me...)

09-25-05, 03:49 PM	#2
Heffalump A-ganger Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 77 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Guess no one knows? Oh well. The convoy went out of sonar range while I did my end around and must have changed headings because I failed to intercept them. ...and the lousy fog took 8(!) days to break.

09-25-05, 04:16 PM	#3
gary1701 Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Stowmarket Suffolk UK Posts: 11 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	That's strange, I was just about to ask a similar question about radar warning recievers myself. I added it to my type IX as soon as it became available hoping it would help as the air threat increased. First patrol out with it, I got a short warning most of the time just prior to a air attack - fair enough. I was hoping it also applied to surface detection at night and/or fog but experience shows this is not the case unfortunately. So I reckon in the case above it's no use whatsoever. The strange thing is, second and third patrols out in 1943 with the RWR and many air attacks later, not once did the warning come up - very odd, and it certainly wasn't damaged in any way. Any thoughts on that would be welcome. Gary

09-25-05, 06:02 PM	#4
andy_311 The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oldham, Lancs,England Posts: 1,312 Downloads: 82 Uploads: 0	I have played aroud with the Basic.cfg file and put the Radar in Jan 40 and the game played like normal but in heavy weather if on surface or PD it said detecting radar signals. So my conclusion is this game engine once you got it they got it.

09-25-05, 10:46 PM	#5
Detritus Navy Dude Join Date: May 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 177 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	My detector works just fine in every weather. Just got a signal of a destroyer at night, clouds overcast, heavy rain, heavy fog, wind 11m/s. June 1943. Not every plane has a radar. I've seen P-38's and Avengers make a flyby at dusk after 'Aircaft spotted' message without them noticing us With radars they'd been all over us. Also, not every warship necessarily has it, especially when ship mounted radars were just entering service. There may be something funky with your files. Try Jungman's SensorPak. The detection ranges have been modded- I dunno know to how historically correct, though- and the detectors therefore give you more time to react,especially in medium/high TC.

09-26-05, 12:29 PM	#6
gary1701 Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Stowmarket Suffolk UK Posts: 11 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Hi. I didn't realise it was meant to work with surface ships, just aircraft in the game. I know that that's not realistic, just thought that was how the game was. Anyway, still no joy, my RWR seems to have died since it's debut patrol. Lots B-24s, PBYs and Sunderlands attacking, which I figure a quantity would be radar equipped, more so than the smaller types, certainly in mid '43. Last night I was operating around a large convoy, NW of Ireland, at night and in fog, got pounched on several times by modern escorts who turned on me at beyond visual range (had to be radar) and no warning at all. Have yet to have the RWR come up on any surface combatant at all. The sensor mod mentioned, can't find any reference to it in the downloads section or forum listings - only a sonar mod by the same guy, is it one and the same or if not, can anybody point me in the right direction? Thanks, Gary

09-27-05, 11:11 AM	#7
crazyhorse Seaman Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 37 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	My radar detector has worked fine until late '44. I don't know if Allied technology has defeated it, or if they now have so many planes in the air that they are finding me visually. All of my aircraft warnings are now visual, and it requires a couple of changes in strategy. One, I have to run at higher surface speeds which allow the boat to dive faster. It's just a few seconds faster, but it makes all the difference with B-24's closing at high speeds and dropping sooner. I also keep the forward torpedo room filled with crew to increase my diving angle. Life was allot easier with the radar detector!

09-27-05, 06:29 PM	#8
gary1701 Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Stowmarket Suffolk UK Posts: 11 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Similar problem then? I noticed that several models of RWR are available at certain points in the campaign so it's fair enough if after a while it's beaten by allied advances (realistic, after all!), and I am only on the first one - but after the very first patrol it goes from near 100% (that probably wasn't realistic but never mind), to zip, not even a single squeek on the next two - something amiss there. Does putting crew forward really make a difference in the game during a dive? Gary

09-28-05, 09:38 AM	#9
crazyhorse Seaman Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 37 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I've used every detector offered up until Nov.'44, and all have worked well, even the first "kite sticks" model. In the early days, if a plane got through it was a fighter not equipped with radar. I've also picked up surface targets, always DD's. I think there was a time when the early detector begame intermittent, and I questioned it's realiability. However, it worked often enough to make it worth having. I haven't done any "sea trials" to confirm faster diving times because of a fully occuppied forward compartment, but at this point in the war am compelled to do everything imaginable to gain even a half second on the way to 50m in a crash dive. For the last part of '44, that seem's to be the challenge of the game. Crashing to 50m before a bomb or DC hits it's mark is our primary task. Took a hit shortly after leaving St. Nazaire and made the long trip to Bergen with less than 50% hull integrity, and it was a long patrol indeed. Another small advantage is to leave the snorkel up while running on the surface. It doesn't seem to matter as far as being detected, and when crash diving it gives another second of breath to the diesals for an extra push before the electrics engage.