Singapore selects F-15T over Rafale

[Torpedo Fodder]

Originally Posted by [url=http://www.flightinternational.com/Articles/2005/09/13/201504/Singapore+finally+opts+for+F-15T.html

Filight International[/url]]Singapore finally opts for F-15T

Boeing moves to final negotiations after Dassault Rafale loses out in contest to supply next-generation fighter

The long-running competition to supply Singapore’s next-generation fighter is finally over, with Boeing’s F-15T Eagle selected over Dassault’s Rafale.

The French manufacturer was told of its elimination from the contest on 6 September and promptly issued a statement announcing its defeat. Singapore then stated its defence ministry was “now in the process of seeking final clarifications and contract negotiation with Boeing�.

Dassault identified two main reasons for Singapore’s decision: the weakness of the US dollar, which it describes as “a definite handicap for the economic competitiveness of the French offer�, and the negotiating influence of “America’s power and might�.

In a shift from its previous response to South Korea’s selection of the F-15 ahead of the Rafale, Dassault says it will not challenge Singapore’s decision.

Singapore has declined to say how many F-15Ts it will acquire or when deliveries will begin. It would have preferred not to announce the platform’s selection until a firm contract was signed with Boeing, which has declined to comment on the selection. But if a final contract is not agreed, the competition could potentially be reopened and delayed further.

The Singaporean air force has previously outlined an initial requirement for eight to 12 aircraft for delivery from 2008, plus the same number of options. The aircraft will replace ageing McDonnell Douglas A-4SU Skyhawks.

The acquisition could ultimately cover more aircraft, depending on whether Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is delayed further. Based on past procurements – such as of Lockheed’s F-16 – Singapore typically follows initial deals with smaller batch orders.

The Rafale had long been viewed as the outsider in Singapore, which would have been launch customer for the type’s export version. Last month there were fresh indications that an F-15T selection was imminent when the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of the potential sale.

Dassault is talking up its progress in the Singapore competition, however, saying the Rafale’s involvement in the final contest – ahead of Eurofighter’s Typhoon – shows it is a good export candidate. “The Rafale programme continues and we have other prospects,� says the company.

[Kapitan]

the F15 has a good reputation i think thats what swung it that and its battle tested

a good choice but personaly id rather by the newer rafel

[Torpedo Fodder]

At least Dassault is not being an overly sore loser this time around. I recall they threatened to sue South Korea when they selected the F-15 over the Rafale.

[Hellcat]

The type of aircraft is not as important as its intended use, from my POV they have made a wise decision by purchasing a tried and testrf all weather multipurpose intercepter over the relatively smaller scope Rafale. Now I dont have my books right now in front of me, but I' m 90% certain that the F15 has much greater bang for the buck. Also on a side note, the F15 is a much better looking plane.

[Torpedo Fodder]

Originally Posted by Hellcat

The type of aircraft is not as important as its intended use, from my POV they have made a wise decision by purchasing a tried and testrf all weather multipurpose intercepter over the relatively smaller scope Rafale. Now I dont have my books right now in front of me, but I' m 90% certain that the F15 has much greater bang for the buck. Also on a side note, the F15 is a much better looking plane.

Cost is also a major issue. The Rafale's pricetage exceeds $50 million per unit, compared to under $40 million for the F-15. The Eurofighter (which costs about $60 million) was also in this competition, but was eliminated 5 months ago. I don't expect much export success for either of these aircraft because of their price, especially the Eurfighter, which is the world's most expensive production fighter next to the F-22 ($100-120 million). However, few in the US government or Lockheed deny that the export opportunities for the F-22 are almost nonexistant.

[Kapitan]

now compare to a mig 29 which is about $25 million a unit battle tested and can compeate against the F15 (new ones that is)

it lacks technology which is a downfall but its more monoverable than the F16 and with the helmet mounted sight the pilot can select a target just by looking at it.

id have the F15 for its tech Mig 29 for its looks and a saab grippen for interceptor

[Abraham]

The Rafale must be a remarkable aircraft. The Dutch thoroughly checked out the JSF, Eurofighter, Rafale and Griffen and the Rafale came second after the JSF - to the surprise of many.
Of course much depends upon the requirements of the countries involved in a fighter selection proces.

[PeriscopeDepth]

It would make more sense for the Euros to develop ONE fighter aircraft jointly. MUCH less expensive because several Euro AFs would be purchasing it right off the bat. And Rafael and Eurofighter wouldn't be competing against each other and driving the costs higher.

And I don't think the Euros were offering anything similar to JDAM either, but I may be wrong?

[Kapitan]

eurofighter is jointly made by the europeans hence the name eurofighter

britian france germany italy and holland i think were the countrys that make it

[XabbaRus]

Spain is the other eurofighter partner.

Eurofighter was discounted not due to capabilities but lack of confidence if Singapore would get them in time due to priority going to the partner nations.

If I had had a choice I would have gone for the Rafale. F-15 may still be good but it is getting old.

JSF is overrated....stealth has been over hyped and reduces weapons carriage, if you want more you have to hang them on the wings and bang goes your stealth.

At Leuchars airshow I was talking to an RAF pilot who flies the Eurofighter Typhoon and he was very very happy with it, and I don't think this was just talk...we had quite a discussion and it seems a lot of what is said in the press is just BS by people who don't know better.

[Kapitan]

BS sells things but i can agree with xabbarus here

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Torpedo Fodder

Cost is also a major issue. The Rafale's pricetage exceeds $50 million per unit, compared to under $40 million for the F-15. The Eurofighter (which costs about $60 million) was also in this competition, but was eliminated 5 months ago. I don't expect much export success for either of these aircraft because of their price, especially the Eurfighter, which is the world's most expensive production fighter next to the F-22 ($100-120 million). However, few in the US government or Lockheed deny that the export opportunities for the F-22 are almost nonexistant.

I don't think America ever had any intention of exporting F-22. I'm almost conviced they want it to be a US only fighter.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Kapitain

now compare to a mig 29 which is about $25 million a unit battle tested and can compeate against the F15 (new ones that is)

it lacks technology which is a downfall but its more monoverable than the F16 and with the helmet mounted sight the pilot can select a target just by looking at it.

id have the F15 for its tech Mig 29 for its looks and a saab grippen for interceptor

The two major faults with MiG-29 and SAAB Gripen is range. This may have a lot to do with it. F-15 is a big plane and carries a lot of fuel.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Spain is the other eurofighter partner.

Eurofighter was discounted not due to capabilities but lack of confidence if Singapore would get them in time due to priority going to the partner nations.

If I had had a choice I would have gone for the Rafale. F-15 may still be good but it is getting old.

JSF is overrated....stealth has been over hyped and reduces weapons carriage, if you want more you have to hang them on the wings and bang goes your stealth.

At Leuchars airshow I was talking to an RAF pilot who flies the Eurofighter Typhoon and he was very very happy with it, and I don't think this was just talk...we had quite a discussion and it seems a lot of what is said in the press is just BS by people who don't know better.

Stealth will be a requirement in the future. Future Russian and American SAM system simply will not miss anymore. Stealth will be the only way into a threat area and back out again. Those that don't have it, are simply dead.

One big fault of US policy in arms procurement right now is the lack of funding for ECM systems. There simply isn't much research going on in this department and newer Russian and American SAM systems just burn right through what is currently operational. Our EF-111 is gone as well. I'm wondering exactly who is smoking the crack to retire these types of systems and to do it without a replacement?

Anyway, as always, just my 2 cents.

-S

PS. WHen ground based lasers become operational, Stealth again will be the only way in and out.

[Type941]

Ah, put them all in MIGs I say. :rotfl: Actually it would probably cost 1/10th of the price. :hmm: