(OFF TOPIC ) DAS BOOT MUSINGS

lotharbucheim · 08-31-05, 03:16 AM

Hi guys, while I am looking through the posts here, I often see people talking about the movie Das Boot. Well for any history-buffs among you I really suggest you get a book called "U-Boat war"by Lothar Gunther Bucheim (the guys who wrote Das Boot). For those of you who may not know, he was a Naval war correspondent during WWII who went on several patrols in U-boats. The book "U-boat war" is brilliant as it is full of hundreds of photos from the patrols he went on..and reading the book you realise the characters in DAS BOOT are all real..and there are the photos of the real guys to prove it ! Remember the scene where they come across Thomsens U-boat during the storm ? Theres the pictures..it really happened ( although in reality the name of the captain of the other boat was Hirsacker), and the "bad boy "second officer ? he's there larger than life... the enigmatic captain..the engineer... all there ! Get this book and you will be amazed at the links between real-life and the characters in the film. I got it at Amazon .com ( a used copy)..it is an amazing book and will really add to your appreciation of what it must have been like... ( and no, I dont work for Amazon lol ).

Karl-Heinz Jaeger · 08-31-05, 03:26 AM

I'd often thought that Das Boot was just too good a movie to have come from the pen of a screenwriter :rotfl:

I guess I'll have to see if I can pick me up a copy. Speaking of which, does anyone know of any other good naval/u-boat novels or books that I should get while I'm at it??

KptnLt Eric Karle · 08-31-05, 03:29 AM

Can you post a link to the Amazon page. The only book I can find by him is Das Boot

Twelvefield · 08-31-05, 03:38 AM

The Aubrey/Maturin series by Patrick O'Brian is the finest naval fiction I have ever read, if not some of the finest books writen in modern times, period. It takes place in the Napoleonic Wars, so no submarines get mentioned, at least not yet. There's 21 books, and the whole collection is something like over 2,000,000 words, so I'm still working on it. Right now, I'm on "The Far Side of the World", which is the nominal basis for the "Master and Commander" movie, and it's the half-way mark of the series. Excellent writing: superlative characters, exotic locations, fierce battles, love, honour, betrayal, intrigue, cannons, swords, madness, humour, depravity, blood, gunpowder, poetry, explosions, music, sand, waves, birds, food, cameraderie ... the lowest puns imaginable ... these books make Tolkein look like a pulp-fiction hack. And I say that as one of Tolkein's more avid readers, P O'B is just that good.

KptnLt Eric Karle · 08-31-05, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twelvefield

The Aubrey/Maturin series by Patrick O'Brian is the finest naval fiction I have ever read, if not some of the finest books writen in modern times, period. It takes place in the Napoleonic Wars, so no submarines get mentioned, at least not yet. There's 21 books, and the whole collection is something like over 2,000,000 words, so I'm still working on it. Right now, I'm on "The Far Side of the World", which is the nominal basis for the "Master and Commander" movie, and it's the half-way mark of the series. Excellent writing: superlative characters, exotic locations, fierce battles, love, honour, betrayal, intrigue, cannons, swords, madness, humour, depravity, blood, gunpowder, poetry, explosions, music, sand, waves, birds, food, cameraderie ... the lowest puns imaginable ... these books make Tolkein look like a pulp-fiction hack. And I say that as one of Tolkein's more avid readers, P O'B is just that good.

Based on your recommendation and those of others I've just had a look at, I will read these books. As another Tolkein fan. I must point out that comparing Historic Novels with Fantasy Novels is a little unfair. Patric O'Brian had a wealth of documented fact with which to write his novels, Tolkein created his world largely from his imagination, which is an infinitely more complex undertaking

Karl-Heinz Jaeger · 08-31-05, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twelvefield

The Aubrey/Maturin series by Patrick O'Brian is the finest naval fiction I have ever read, if not some of the finest books writen in modern times, period. It takes place in the Napoleonic Wars, so no submarines get mentioned, at least not yet. There's 21 books, and the whole collection is something like over 2,000,000 words, so I'm still working on it. Right now, I'm on "The Far Side of the World", which is the nominal basis for the "Master and Commander" movie, and it's the half-way mark of the series. Excellent writing: superlative characters, exotic locations, fierce battles, love, honour, betrayal, intrigue, cannons, swords, madness, humour, depravity, blood, gunpowder, poetry, explosions, music, sand, waves, birds, food, cameraderie ... the lowest puns imaginable ... these books make Tolkein look like a pulp-fiction hack. And I say that as one of Tolkein's more avid readers, P O'B is just that good.

I made a mental note when I saw the movie to pick up some of O'Brians books but have since forgotten about it. Thanks for the reminder, any other recommendations would be muchly appreciated!! Thanks again guys!!

kiwi_2005 · 08-31-05, 06:34 AM

Funny you should say that lotharbucheim, here in New Zealand i just brought The U-boat wars book of Trademe online store a few days ago for $9 and am waiting for it in the post.

Another good uboat story ive read is called "Far from Home," The Epic voyage of U-862 an IXD2 that sailed around the Australian and New Zealand shores, and survived the war. Also HIRSCHFELD The secret diary of a U-Boat, by Wolfgang Hirschfeld is another classic.

benetofski · 08-31-05, 11:54 PM

I agree, 'U-Boat War' is full of amazing personalized pictures.
Bucheim was an artist embedded aboard a u-boat to produce renderings and capture (on film) historic moments of victory and later defeat... Ironically, many of the crew members shown were probably transferred at one time or another to other boats with the usual undesireable consequences!

The movie 'das boot' based upon Bucheim's book was somewhat 'hollywoodized' by Wolfgang Petersen and regardless of this, is still (IMHO) is the best u-boat movie.

I have a 'critique' on 'das boot' written by a friend of mine who served in the ubootwaffe - it hasnt spoiled the movie for me but rather has further educated me in the realities of the period!

You should check out these books also:

'U-Boat Commander' - Peter Cremer (Naval Institute Press. Maryland)
'Another Place Another Time' - Werner Hirschmann (Robin Brass Studio. Toronto)
'Battle Beneath The Waves' - Robert C. Stern (Castle Books. NJ)

..........................................---------!!--------................................

Twelvefield · 09-01-05, 02:34 AM

Based on your recommendation and those of others I've just had a look at, I will read these books. As another Tolkein fan. I must point out that comparing Historic Novels with Fantasy Novels is a little unfair. Patric O'Brian had a wealth of documented fact with which to write his novels, Tolkein created his world largely from his imagination, which is an infinitely more complex undertaking[/quote]

No longer content to stay on topic, I will take this opportunity to point out that once you have sampled the PO'B books, you better will understand comparisons between him and Tolkein. For instance, PO'B can write female characters and portray scenes of love in many forms in his books. That alone sets him above Tolkein, in my opinion. As well, I feel that P'OB has a finer sensibility of how to create an epic storyline. Not that all the LOTR stuff wasn't epic, but I always felt the story ending was telegraphed all the way throughout the series. All of the characters' fates are tied inextricably to what happens to the ring, and nothing is resolved until Frodo manages to destroy it. (Spoiler!) On the other hand, although we know how the Napoleonic Wars end up, there's a lot more leeway for unexpected things to happen to the main characters in the Aubrey/Maturin series. In fact, the end of the wars and the flourishes of peace could possibly be the undoing of Jack Aubrey, as all Hell typically breaks loose when he is left to his own devices on land.

As for Tolkein's inspirations, my Tolkein-historian-geek brother-in-law would be better to answer that than me. With the exception of invented languages, Tolkein probably "made up in his head" about as much story content as PO'B, as Tolkein relied on a lot of Nordic and European mythology to base his characters and languages on.

09-01-05, 11:33 AM

I've read a fair share of O'Brian, and I find him a little on the boring side. I much prefer C.S. Forester's Horatio Hornblower. He's also the guy who wrote The African Queen and Sink The Bismark.

Catfish · 09-01-05, 11:40 AM

Hello,
don't forget Forester's "The Ship" - if you ever can get your hands on that .... one of the finest (ww2) novels i know of. The action is settled in the mediterranean, a british light cruiser and some tin can destroyers guarding a convoy against some italian battleships.
But i have to say i came to love the Aubrey/Maturin series of O'Brian - if you studied some natural science and are a wooden ship's buff you will know what i mean.
Greetings,
Catfish

caspofungin · 09-01-05, 04:26 PM

hms ulysses -- by alistair maclean, about a brit light cruiser on the murmansk run. great reading. san andreas by the same author has a good foreword about merchant crews.

kiwi_2005 · 09-01-05, 04:47 PM

All the Submarine books information you need

http://www.sonic.net/~books/sub.html

08-31-05, 03:16 AM	#1
lotharbucheim Seaman Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 31 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	(OFF TOPIC ) DAS BOOT MUSINGS Hi guys, while I am looking through the posts here, I often see people talking about the movie Das Boot. Well for any history-buffs among you I really suggest you get a book called "U-Boat war"by Lothar Gunther Bucheim (the guys who wrote Das Boot). For those of you who may not know, he was a Naval war correspondent during WWII who went on several patrols in U-boats. The book "U-boat war" is brilliant as it is full of hundreds of photos from the patrols he went on..and reading the book you realise the characters in DAS BOOT are all real..and there are the photos of the real guys to prove it ! Remember the scene where they come across Thomsens U-boat during the storm ? Theres the pictures..it really happened ( although in reality the name of the captain of the other boat was Hirsacker), and the "bad boy "second officer ? he's there larger than life... the enigmatic captain..the engineer... all there ! Get this book and you will be amazed at the links between real-life and the characters in the film. I got it at Amazon .com ( a used copy)..it is an amazing book and will really add to your appreciation of what it must have been like... ( and no, I dont work for Amazon lol ).

08-31-05, 03:26 AM	#2
Karl-Heinz Jaeger Planesman Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 188 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I'd often thought that Das Boot was just too good a movie to have come from the pen of a screenwriter :rotfl: I guess I'll have to see if I can pick me up a copy. Speaking of which, does anyone know of any other good naval/u-boat novels or books that I should get while I'm at it?? __________________ Clear Skies and Good Hunting!! Regards, Kptn.Lt. Karl-Heinz Jaeger SHIII Commander Henry Hunter SHIV

08-31-05, 03:29 AM	#3
KptnLt Eric Karle Ensign Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 229 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Can you post a link to the Amazon page. The only book I can find by him is Das Boot __________________ My Mod's: Karle's Silent Hunter III Mods My Music: http://www.reverbnation.com/thisturbulentpriest

08-31-05, 06:34 AM	#7
kiwi_2005 Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aeoteroa Posts: 7,382 Downloads: 223 Uploads: 1	Funny you should say that lotharbucheim, here in New Zealand i just brought The U-boat wars book of Trademe online store a few days ago for $9 and am waiting for it in the post. Another good uboat story ive read is called "Far from Home," The Epic voyage of U-862 an IXD2 that sailed around the Australian and New Zealand shores, and survived the war. Also HIRSCHFELD The secret diary of a U-Boat, by Wolfgang Hirschfeld is another classic. __________________ RIP kiwi_2005 Those who can't laugh at themselves leave the job to others.

08-31-05, 11:54 PM	#8
benetofski Helmsman Join Date: May 2005 Location: Port Perry, Canada Posts: 106 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I agree, 'U-Boat War' is full of amazing personalized pictures. Bucheim was an artist embedded aboard a u-boat to produce renderings and capture (on film) historic moments of victory and later defeat... Ironically, many of the crew members shown were probably transferred at one time or another to other boats with the usual undesireable consequences! The movie 'das boot' based upon Bucheim's book was somewhat 'hollywoodized' by Wolfgang Petersen and regardless of this, is still (IMHO) is the best u-boat movie. I have a 'critique' on 'das boot' written by a friend of mine who served in the ubootwaffe - it hasnt spoiled the movie for me but rather has further educated me in the realities of the period! You should check out these books also: 'U-Boat Commander' - Peter Cremer (Naval Institute Press. Maryland) 'Another Place Another Time' - Werner Hirschmann (Robin Brass Studio. Toronto) 'Battle Beneath The Waves' - Robert C. Stern (Castle Books. NJ) ..........................................---------!!--------................................ __________________ OLt.z.S.Benetschik (Benetofski) [IMG][/IMG] \"U-bootwaffe - eine Gemeinschaft zusammengebracht durch Schicksal\"

08-31-05, 03:38 AM	#4
Twelvefield Planesman Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 186 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The Aubrey/Maturin series by Patrick O'Brian is the finest naval fiction I have ever read, if not some of the finest books writen in modern times, period. It takes place in the Napoleonic Wars, so no submarines get mentioned, at least not yet. There's 21 books, and the whole collection is something like over 2,000,000 words, so I'm still working on it. Right now, I'm on "The Far Side of the World", which is the nominal basis for the "Master and Commander" movie, and it's the half-way mark of the series. Excellent writing: superlative characters, exotic locations, fierce battles, love, honour, betrayal, intrigue, cannons, swords, madness, humour, depravity, blood, gunpowder, poetry, explosions, music, sand, waves, birds, food, cameraderie ... the lowest puns imaginable ... these books make Tolkein look like a pulp-fiction hack. And I say that as one of Tolkein's more avid readers, P O'B is just that good.

09-01-05, 02:34 AM	#9
Twelvefield Planesman Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 186 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Based on your recommendation and those of others I've just had a look at, I will read these books. As another Tolkein fan. I must point out that comparing Historic Novels with Fantasy Novels is a little unfair. Patric O'Brian had a wealth of documented fact with which to write his novels, Tolkein created his world largely from his imagination, which is an infinitely more complex undertaking[/quote] No longer content to stay on topic, I will take this opportunity to point out that once you have sampled the PO'B books, you better will understand comparisons between him and Tolkein. For instance, PO'B can write female characters and portray scenes of love in many forms in his books. That alone sets him above Tolkein, in my opinion. As well, I feel that P'OB has a finer sensibility of how to create an epic storyline. Not that all the LOTR stuff wasn't epic, but I always felt the story ending was telegraphed all the way throughout the series. All of the characters' fates are tied inextricably to what happens to the ring, and nothing is resolved until Frodo manages to destroy it. (Spoiler!) On the other hand, although we know how the Napoleonic Wars end up, there's a lot more leeway for unexpected things to happen to the main characters in the Aubrey/Maturin series. In fact, the end of the wars and the flourishes of peace could possibly be the undoing of Jack Aubrey, as all Hell typically breaks loose when he is left to his own devices on land. As for Tolkein's inspirations, my Tolkein-historian-geek brother-in-law would be better to answer that than me. With the exception of invented languages, Tolkein probably "made up in his head" about as much story content as PO'B, as Tolkein relied on a lot of Nordic and European mythology to base his characters and languages on.

09-01-05, 11:33 AM	#10
Sailor Steve Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I've read a fair share of O'Brian, and I find him a little on the boring side. I much prefer C.S. Forester's Horatio Hornblower. He's also the guy who wrote The African Queen and Sink The Bismark.

09-01-05, 11:40 AM	#11
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, don't forget Forester's "The Ship" - if you ever can get your hands on that .... one of the finest (ww2) novels i know of. The action is settled in the mediterranean, a british light cruiser and some tin can destroyers guarding a convoy against some italian battleships. But i have to say i came to love the Aubrey/Maturin series of O'Brian - if you studied some natural science and are a wooden ship's buff you will know what i mean. Greetings, Catfish

09-01-05, 04:26 PM	#12
caspofungin Commander Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 459 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 0	hms ulysses -- by alistair maclean, about a brit light cruiser on the murmansk run. great reading. san andreas by the same author has a good foreword about merchant crews.

09-01-05, 04:47 PM	#13
kiwi_2005 Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aeoteroa Posts: 7,382 Downloads: 223 Uploads: 1	All the Submarine books information you need http://www.sonic.net/~books/sub.html __________________ RIP kiwi_2005 Those who can't laugh at themselves leave the job to others.