Battleship fight

Wolf52 · 08-16-05, 10:23 PM

Is there a way to make ai ships engage each other at greater ranges? Ive set up a mission where German and British battleships should exchange broadsides but they simply wont engage at ranges greater than about 4000 meters. Plus, i'm very disappointed at the Bismarck's surviveability.

Gizzmoe · 08-17-05, 01:54 AM

I donÂ´t know if it is because I use RUb 1.43, but in my test mission they engage at 6000m. Perfect weather, 1.Jun.1941, 12:00, no wind. ThereÂ´s the Bismarck (docked) and the King George. ItÂ´s 8000m away and drives towards the Bismarck. The Bismarck almost immediately detects it, but waits until itÂ´s 6000m away...

Please try this mission and let us know the result.
http://home.arcor.de/gizzmoe/files/Bismarck_Test.rar

Also please send me your mission, the address is gizzmoe [at] gmx.de.

Gizzmoe · 08-17-05, 02:08 AM

It could be that SH3 uses the maximum range of the secondary armament for calculation of the engagement distance. But thatÂ´s pure speculation...

Gizzmoe · 08-17-05, 05:42 AM

Moved to the Mod forum.

Oesten · 08-17-05, 06:07 AM

There's a Work In Progress mod to increase the visibility range in the sim.

See the 'Can this be a work-around for the 8 KM visibility?' thread.

Basically it increases the 'simmed area' around the boat to about 17km or so. So the U-boat can spot smoke from enemy ships at that range, instead of the 7km max we have now.

This may solve the problem of battleship ranges as well, since with the visibility maximum range increased, the detection and firing ranges of the AI ships could be increased as well.

One drawback I can foresee is that it may not be possible to increase the firing range of battleships without increasing the firing range of destroyers as well. So we could find our U-boats being detected and fired at on the surface by destroyers at ranges of about 15 km! Although the 4.7" guns of a destroyer could fire that far (max range of a 4.7" gun was 17 km), the lookouts are unlikely to spot a surfaced U-boat at that distance due to the curvature of the earth hiding the low silhouette of the boat from the destroyer's view.

Also, the fact that the AI gunnery is unrealistically accurate in SH3 would be a problem at longer ranges.

Gizzmoe · 08-17-05, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oesten

There's a Work In Progress mod to increase the visibility range in the sim.

See the 'Can this be a work-around for the 8 KM visibility?' thread.

Basically it increases the 'simmed area' around the boat to about 17km or so. So the U-boat can spot smoke from enemy ships at that range, instead of the 7km max we have now.

IÂ´m not sure that this will help. As I wrote, the Bismarck detects the King George at a range of 7.5-8km (it turn the turrets towards it), but waits until it comes up to 6km before firing.

Type941 · 08-17-05, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oesten

There's a Work In Progress mod to increase the visibility range in the sim.

See the 'Can this be a work-around for the 8 KM visibility?' thread.

Basically it increases the 'simmed area' around the boat to about 17km or so. So the U-boat can spot smoke from enemy ships at that range, instead of the 7km max we have now.

IÂ´m not sure that this will help. As I wrote, the Bismarck detects the King George at a range of 7.5-8km (it turn the turrets towards it), but waits until it comes up to 6km before firing.

That's exactly what I detemermined. However, having bismarck being led by Prinz Eugen, the heavy crusier fired FIRST and than bismarck opens up (the distance was 500m betwen teh german ships). Test - it might be interesting if indeed the Hipper class fires sooner than Bismarck..

Commander1980 · 08-17-05, 08:02 AM

In the folder data/cfg open sim.cfg and change

[AI Cannons]
Max error angle=3 ;[deg]
Max fire range=6000 ;[m]
Max fire wait=12 ;[s]

to

Max fire range=8000

I think more is not possible, but i haven't tried so far.

Wolf52 · 08-17-05, 08:37 AM

Ok, changed the range to 8000 and set up a mission. 2 Nelsons and 2 Revenges on one side, 7,800 meters away sit 4 Bismarcks. I started the mission. They engaged almost immediately (this is at high noon with clear weather). Problem is that only a couple ships on either side engage, the others dont even turn their guns toward target, maybe this has something to do with the crew rating. They are all on veteran now.

Gizzmoe · 08-17-05, 09:00 AM

Thanks, Commander, that worked.

Now the next question... Why is there a 6000m limitation? The RUb team has changed "Max error angle" but kept the 6000m limit. There must a good reason, I guess, but I donÂ´t see it... :hmm:

Nopileo · 08-17-05, 09:16 AM

It's pretty amazing to read how far away the warships of that era were when they were fighting each other. Here is a link to the history of Bismarck:

http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarc...ationhist.html

And look at these two quotes from that site:

Quote:

Hood changed course by 20 degrees to port, to bring the after turrets (C, D) into action. Speed: about 28 knots. Distance from enemy: about 19,700 meter.

Quote:

Prince of Wales under concentrated fire of Bismarck and Prinz Eugen, shooting well and fast (distance about 16,000 meter).

Type941 · 08-17-05, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nopileo

It's pretty amazing to read how far away the warships of that era were when they were fighting each other. Here is a link to the history of Bismarck:

http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarc...ationhist.html

And look at these two quotes from that site:

Quote:

Hood changed course by 20 degrees to port, to bring the after turrets (C, D) into action. Speed: about 28 knots. Distance from enemy: about 19,700 meter.

Quote:

Prince of Wales under concentrated fire of Bismarck and Prinz Eugen, shooting well and fast (distance about 16,000 meter).

Lol, I've been qouting from there previously a few weeks back. Anyway, they opened up as far away as 30km. Think about that.

Nopileo · 08-17-05, 12:59 PM

Quite strange. I live about 13 km from where I work. I've been trying to picture myself hitting the office complex from my house, but I can't see it happening... :rotfl:

Gizzmoe · 08-18-05, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Now the next question... Why is there a 6000m limitation? The RUb team has changed "Max error angle" but kept the 6000m limit. There must a good reason, I guess, but I donÂ´t see it... :hmm:

Bump. Can anyone answer this question? Is it maybe because of the nighttime visibility problem?

Type941 · 08-18-05, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nopileo

Quite strange. I live about 13 km from where I work. I've been trying to picture myself hitting the office complex from my house, but I can't see it happening... :rotfl:

How high was the look out masts on the battleship like Bismarck which would allow to establish visual contact... I suspect quite high.

08-16-05, 10:23 PM	#1
Wolf52 Torpedoman Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 115 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Battleship fight Is there a way to make ai ships engage each other at greater ranges? Ive set up a mission where German and British battleships should exchange broadsides but they simply wont engage at ranges greater than about 4000 meters. Plus, i'm very disappointed at the Bismarck's surviveability.

08-17-05, 01:54 AM	#2
Gizzmoe Silent Hunter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 3,668 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I donÂ´t know if it is because I use RUb 1.43, but in my test mission they engage at 6000m. Perfect weather, 1.Jun.1941, 12:00, no wind. ThereÂ´s the Bismarck (docked) and the King George. ItÂ´s 8000m away and drives towards the Bismarck. The Bismarck almost immediately detects it, but waits until itÂ´s 6000m away... Please try this mission and let us know the result. http://home.arcor.de/gizzmoe/files/Bismarck_Test.rar Also please send me your mission, the address is gizzmoe [at] gmx.de.

08-17-05, 02:08 AM	#3
Gizzmoe Silent Hunter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 3,668 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	It could be that SH3 uses the maximum range of the secondary armament for calculation of the engagement distance. But thatÂ´s pure speculation...

08-17-05, 05:42 AM	#4
Gizzmoe Silent Hunter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 3,668 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Moved to the Mod forum.

08-17-05, 06:07 AM	#5
Oesten A-ganger Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 79 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	There's a Work In Progress mod to increase the visibility range in the sim. See the 'Can this be a work-around for the 8 KM visibility?' thread. Basically it increases the 'simmed area' around the boat to about 17km or so. So the U-boat can spot smoke from enemy ships at that range, instead of the 7km max we have now. This may solve the problem of battleship ranges as well, since with the visibility maximum range increased, the detection and firing ranges of the AI ships could be increased as well. One drawback I can foresee is that it may not be possible to increase the firing range of battleships without increasing the firing range of destroyers as well. So we could find our U-boats being detected and fired at on the surface by destroyers at ranges of about 15 km! Although the 4.7" guns of a destroyer could fire that far (max range of a 4.7" gun was 17 km), the lookouts are unlikely to spot a surfaced U-boat at that distance due to the curvature of the earth hiding the low silhouette of the boat from the destroyer's view. Also, the fact that the AI gunnery is unrealistically accurate in SH3 would be a problem at longer ranges.

08-17-05, 08:02 AM	#8
Commander1980 Engineer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 218 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	In the folder data/cfg open sim.cfg and change [AI Cannons] Max error angle=3 ;[deg] Max fire range=6000 ;[m] Max fire wait=12 ;[s] to Max fire range=8000 I think more is not possible, but i haven't tried so far.

08-17-05, 08:37 AM	#9
Wolf52 Torpedoman Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 115 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Ok, changed the range to 8000 and set up a mission. 2 Nelsons and 2 Revenges on one side, 7,800 meters away sit 4 Bismarcks. I started the mission. They engaged almost immediately (this is at high noon with clear weather). Problem is that only a couple ships on either side engage, the others dont even turn their guns toward target, maybe this has something to do with the crew rating. They are all on veteran now.

08-17-05, 09:00 AM	#10
Gizzmoe Silent Hunter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 3,668 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Thanks, Commander, that worked. Now the next question... Why is there a 6000m limitation? The RUb team has changed "Max error angle" but kept the 6000m limit. There must a good reason, I guess, but I donÂ´t see it... :hmm:

08-17-05, 12:59 PM	#13
Nopileo Watch Officer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 333 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Quite strange. I live about 13 km from where I work. I've been trying to picture myself hitting the office complex from my house, but I can't see it happening... :rotfl: