Detection of SSMs with the FFG

Mau · 08-06-05, 08:21 PM

After some testing with the scenario First Salvo I found that detection of SSM is almost impossible with missile going at very very high speed like the AS-4 (2000kts), the SS-N-27 at terminal speed (1800+) and the SS-N-19 (1500 kts).

For the others, yes you can detect it but we should have (like for the TIW) have the radar operator or the EW Operator reporting a SSM searching. Why because now there is no way to know if it is an aircraft or a missile coming at you.

second to help for this we should be able to determine the altitude of that Air contact by assigning a misille at it (Fire Control radar). This should give us at that point the altitude of the contacts (at least in teh DDI), like in real life.

BTW may be by increasing the rate of updates for radars would help a bit. Understand that a surface search radar like SPS 55 and the Air Search radar SPS 49 are not the best ones for the SSMs

However having the Helicopter up front hlp a bit to detect earlier, but there are so much cluters with the different LOB on the NAV Map

OKO · 08-06-05, 08:42 PM

I just can say : this is the purpose of these missiles
don't forget you just have an OHP, with no Aegis system but a very basic AA defense.
and these missiles are made to go trough this type of defense.
DW is a simulator, and no simulator, at this time, could reproduce exactly the real thing.
But I think an OHP against a kitchen is just dead meat even in real life.

some links =>
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/bomber/as-4.htm

http://www.military.cz/russia/air/we...h-22/ch-22.htm

http://www.wonderland.org.nz/Missile_Index/as4.htm

Mau · 08-06-05, 08:52 PM

Agree that an OHP has some weaknesses for Anti-air and I think we all know that. So I agree with you.

But in this mission I have some Aegis equipped ships not that far away from me (well I have to check the distance) so I would have hope to have them being linked to me.

For the AS-4, yes it is a very fast missile but an old one. It should come from a high altitude so the system should detect it well in advance. But I don`t think this misille is modeled this way in the game.

I just think that knowing the altitude on an incoming air contacts is an invaluable element.

Amizaur · 08-07-05, 11:00 AM

Unfortunately AEGIS ships are detecting sea-skimming missiles with their surface search radars :-( especially the Burke loses on this. The SPY-1 radars in the game work only from 5000ft up. Take an DB editor and check yourself. Everything lower than 5000ft is detected with surface search radars in the game... well ask the Sonalysts to lower the limit for SPY maybe or wait for DWX.
SPS-49 in the game works from 10ft up, probably because the Perry is playable.
There is also one more problem - AEGIS ships are engaging vampires only inside 10nm (even if they detect them at 20nm), and I have no idea why... nothing in the doctrine stops them from firing earlier, radar horizon is much further too... have no idea :-(.

08-06-05, 08:21 PM	#1
Mau Sonar Guy Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 382 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Detection of SSMs with the FFG After some testing with the scenario First Salvo I found that detection of SSM is almost impossible with missile going at very very high speed like the AS-4 (2000kts), the SS-N-27 at terminal speed (1800+) and the SS-N-19 (1500 kts). For the others, yes you can detect it but we should have (like for the TIW) have the radar operator or the EW Operator reporting a SSM searching. Why because now there is no way to know if it is an aircraft or a missile coming at you. second to help for this we should be able to determine the altitude of that Air contact by assigning a misille at it (Fire Control radar). This should give us at that point the altitude of the contacts (at least in teh DDI), like in real life. BTW may be by increasing the rate of updates for radars would help a bit. Understand that a surface search radar like SPS 55 and the Air Search radar SPS 49 are not the best ones for the SSMs However having the Helicopter up front hlp a bit to detect earlier, but there are so much cluters with the different LOB on the NAV Map

08-06-05, 08:42 PM	#2
OKO Commander Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Solar system, mainly on earth Posts: 476 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	I just can say : this is the purpose of these missiles don't forget you just have an OHP, with no Aegis system but a very basic AA defense. and these missiles are made to go trough this type of defense. DW is a simulator, and no simulator, at this time, could reproduce exactly the real thing. But I think an OHP against a kitchen is just dead meat even in real life. some links => http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/bomber/as-4.htm http://www.military.cz/russia/air/we...h-22/ch-22.htm http://www.wonderland.org.nz/Missile_Index/as4.htm

08-06-05, 08:52 PM	#3
Mau Sonar Guy Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 382 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Agree that an OHP has some weaknesses for Anti-air and I think we all know that. So I agree with you. But in this mission I have some Aegis equipped ships not that far away from me (well I have to check the distance) so I would have hope to have them being linked to me. For the AS-4, yes it is a very fast missile but an old one. It should come from a high altitude so the system should detect it well in advance. But I don`t think this misille is modeled this way in the game. I just think that knowing the altitude on an incoming air contacts is an invaluable element.

08-07-05, 11:00 AM	#4
Amizaur Sonar Guy Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poland Posts: 398 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Unfortunately AEGIS ships are detecting sea-skimming missiles with their surface search radars :-( especially the Burke loses on this. The SPY-1 radars in the game work only from 5000ft up. Take an DB editor and check yourself. Everything lower than 5000ft is detected with surface search radars in the game... well ask the Sonalysts to lower the limit for SPY maybe or wait for DWX. SPS-49 in the game works from 10ft up, probably because the Perry is playable. There is also one more problem - AEGIS ships are engaging vampires only inside 10nm (even if they detect them at 20nm), and I have no idea why... nothing in the doctrine stops them from firing earlier, radar horizon is much further too... have no idea :-(.