Broken convoys

The Mad Asshatter · 07-26-05, 04:58 PM

Is this normal? Almost every convoy I run into appears to consist of ships moving in everywhich direction, but moving in the same general direction. I can't believe this was an actual tactic since although they have made it nearly impossible to target any ships, they are probably making horrible time.

I think I'm at May 1941 in my campaign.

Please note that I have not been detected since my ship was submerged and beyond visual range. I just zoomed over to the convoy with free cam to snap this screenshot.

Stymnus · 07-26-05, 05:02 PM

That sounds a lot like a rally point. I've bumped into a couple like that, the lead destroyer keeps going back to check on the ships like an attentive mother duck as the ships get themselves organized..

Also possible is that since you were spotted, and since the ships all have radios, they've been alerted to your presence and are making an attempt not to be a clear target

The ships tend to go all over after they know a sub's out there..I don't know if they straighten out after the threat is neutralized, because, well, I don't survive to see that far

Jace11 · 07-26-05, 05:23 PM

If you spot a broken convoy in mid ocean (as I have), then please let me know the date, time, area etc. I believe I have discovered the reason, but need to make sure.

I think its the use of GENERICS in the merchant composition fo the convoy.

Cpl Carrot · 07-26-05, 06:14 PM

Think you will find it is due to the convoy having a spacing of less than 500m. (Game accepts 300m as a minimum)

CobraCommander · 07-26-05, 06:25 PM

I often see this pattern when a convoy I`m shadowing changes direction (mostly north of Ireland). The chaos lasts for several minutes.

Could be bad path-plotting at course-change or something. If you want to see real chaos torp a T3 in the front of a column in the middle of turning (if it stays dead in the water the whole convoy gets messed up).

The Mad Asshatter · 07-26-05, 06:35 PM

This happened on the northern edge of grid AL26 on Jul 3 1941 from about 00:26 - 02:26. I should also mention that I am using the latest version of RUB, although I noticed this happening before with unmodded sh3.

Fattysbox · 07-26-05, 07:19 PM

Hi fellas,

Last night I came across an unescorted convoy that looked exactly like the pick in the original post. All of the ships were disorded and instead of having the usual escort front screen, there was a coastal merchant!!

Not one escort in the whole mess.

Of course they continued to be in more disarray once I sunk a T2, T3, and 3 C2's... :|\

Duncan Idaho · 07-26-05, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobraCommander

I often see this pattern when a convoy I`m shadowing changes direction (mostly north of Ireland). The chaos lasts for several minutes.

Could be bad path-plotting at course-change or something. If you want to see real chaos torp a T3 in the front of a column in the middle of turning (if it stays dead in the water the whole convoy gets messed up).

I think I had that happen last night just south of Portland in the English Channel. I launched a salvo at a T3, and it stopped, then sunk. There was another T3 followed by a C2 in the column behind the sunk T3, and the second T3 stopped dead in the water. The C2 almost hit it, and ended up to the left of the T3, facing 90 degrees from the direction the convoy was originally heading , (they formed a T). C2 then stopped right there. The rest of the convoy scattered, but the T3 that stopped and the C2 that stopped beside it both remained where they were, and never did move again. (Mostly cause after dealing with the fleeing convoy, I sunk them hehehe).

Never saw anything like this, and I regularly poach this convoy. Oddest thing of all, to me, was the reaction of the rest of the convoy. Normally, they continue on, usually zig-zagging after my first torps hit. But this time, they just scattered, going every which way, with the escorts barreling dangerously through the middle of the convoy seeking me...(but I was out at the edges, they never got close). To be honest, scattering them was really a lot of fun. It gave the appearance of total panic and chaos, which had me laughing on the edge of my seat.

CobraCommander · 07-26-05, 07:57 PM

It can get annoying OTOH. I fired three torps into this nice little chaos at a troop ship and an T2 stopped and seemingly discussing who`s to go first, and guess what:
A coastal merchant drove in the way, sucking up all the precious fish

The Mad Asshatter · 07-26-05, 08:14 PM

Did convoys actually scatter or zigzag when a ship was sunk? I would have thought that the best response would be to push on and send an escort out to scare away the sub.

Duncan Idaho · 07-26-05, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mad Asshatter

Did convoys actually scatter or zigzag when a ship was sunk? I would have thought that the best response would be to push on and send an escort out to scare away the sub.

Most information I've heard stated they had orders to keep going, so I'd assume they'd have done that. Panic is always a factor though, I'd think.

CobraCommander · 07-26-05, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mad Asshatter

Did convoys actually scatter or zigzag when a ship was sunk? I would have thought that the best response would be to push on and send an escort out to scare away the sub.

Let`s see...
:|\
O.K., one ship is hit. As long as the convoy stays on course the firing solution of the sub stays true, plus there may already be more torps underway later in war perhaps even with a search pattern (FaTs).
Okay, I think a course change or zig-zag is in order (at least until the escorts reporting they found and are engaging the sub).

The situation Duncan and I mentioned is somewhat different:
The convoy makes a regular course change without knowledge of the silent killer under the waves

. This is already a difficult manuever as there are many ships involved (outward ships must run faster or cut short etc.). During this an insidious German sub cripples one of the largest ships of the convoy. Normally the following ships only make a half-circle around and drive on, but now they get in way of another manuevering ship and so on -> Nice chain reaction

ReM · 07-27-05, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mad Asshatter

Did convoys actually scatter or zigzag when a ship was sunk? I would have thought that the best response would be to push on and send an escort out to scare away the sub.

Scattering a convoy would be suicidal. The very reason the ships made the trip across the Atlantic in convoys was to counter the U-boat menace. If they would scatter after a sinking they would be easy prey for the U boats cause there would be no more escort protection for them.
Not only that: they would've been located as well.......imagine a pack of Seewolves

picking off single merchants one by one....

A good example of what could happen if a convoy was ordered to scatter is the tale of convoy PQ17. (it was ordered to scatter not because of a U-boat threat, but because the Admiralty thought that capital German ships were making their way to the convoy)
Anyway just search for PQ 17 on the internet and you will find out all you need to know.....it was a disaster.

Dave Kay · 08-06-05, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mad Asshatter

Is this normal? Almost every convoy I run into appears to consist of ships moving in everywhich direction, but moving in the same general direction. I can't believe this was an actual tactic since although they have made it nearly impossible to target any ships, they are probably making horrible time.

I think I'm at May 1941 in my campaign.

Please note that I have not been detected since my ship was submerged and beyond visual range. I just zoomed over to the convoy with free cam to snap this screenshot.

I TOO have experienced this but so far only once, on my 12th mission and right now I'm doing the lucky 13th. Anyway, can't remember exact grid square (a couple of squares west of N. Ireland?) but this convoy I happened upon appeared normal for the first 5 or so ships in-line but the rest of the trailing ships were going all over the place. As I entered into the columns submerged, it was all I could do to keep from getting rammed... sadly I only had one eel left in the stern and made a bad shot howver, the wind speed was around 5 so I chased this group for nearly 24 hours in hopes of using my deck gun all the while getting harrassed by the escorts until eventually I gave up because the columns never regrouped or straighted out.

Though I've been involved in other covoy battles this is the only screwy-one so far. But I surely hope it's not a taste of things to come...

best wishes to all!

ddk

Patboot · 08-06-05, 08:05 PM

I get em frequently- I call em "Crazy Ivan" convoys. Usually in the NW corner of AM grid, normally 3-4 T2's maybe a T3, 3-4 C2's, and about 10 smallies and coasties.

Radical course changes, no real formation held long , but a good obvious base course.

And no escort at all......Gun-O-Rama!

07-26-05, 04:58 PM	#1
The Mad Asshatter Seaman Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 35 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	Broken convoys Is this normal? Almost every convoy I run into appears to consist of ships moving in everywhich direction, but moving in the same general direction. I can't believe this was an actual tactic since although they have made it nearly impossible to target any ships, they are probably making horrible time. I think I'm at May 1941 in my campaign. Please note that I have not been detected since my ship was submerged and beyond visual range. I just zoomed over to the convoy with free cam to snap this screenshot.

07-26-05, 05:02 PM	#2
Stymnus A-ganger Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wilton, NH Posts: 72 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	That sounds a lot like a rally point. I've bumped into a couple like that, the lead destroyer keeps going back to check on the ships like an attentive mother duck as the ships get themselves organized.. Also possible is that since you were spotted, and since the ships all have radios, they've been alerted to your presence and are making an attempt not to be a clear target The ships tend to go all over after they know a sub's out there..I don't know if they straighten out after the threat is neutralized, because, well, I don't survive to see that far

07-26-05, 05:23 PM	#3
Jace11 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK Posts: 683 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 1	If you spot a broken convoy in mid ocean (as I have), then please let me know the date, time, area etc. I believe I have discovered the reason, but need to make sure. I think its the use of GENERICS in the merchant composition fo the convoy.

07-26-05, 06:14 PM	#4
Cpl Carrot Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 14 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Think you will find it is due to the convoy having a spacing of less than 500m. (Game accepts 300m as a minimum)

07-26-05, 06:25 PM	#5
CobraCommander Watch Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Wolfsburg, Germany Posts: 15 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I often see this pattern when a convoy I`m shadowing changes direction (mostly north of Ireland). The chaos lasts for several minutes. Could be bad path-plotting at course-change or something. If you want to see real chaos torp a T3 in the front of a column in the middle of turning (if it stays dead in the water the whole convoy gets messed up).

07-26-05, 06:35 PM	#6
The Mad Asshatter Seaman Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 35 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	This happened on the northern edge of grid AL26 on Jul 3 1941 from about 00:26 - 02:26. I should also mention that I am using the latest version of RUB, although I noticed this happening before with unmodded sh3.

07-26-05, 07:19 PM	#7
Fattysbox Machinist's Mate Join Date: May 2005 Location: The Windy City Posts: 130 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Hi fellas, Last night I came across an unescorted convoy that looked exactly like the pick in the original post. All of the ships were disorded and instead of having the usual escort front screen, there was a coastal merchant!! Not one escort in the whole mess. Of course they continued to be in more disarray once I sunk a T2, T3, and 3 C2's... :\|\

07-26-05, 07:57 PM	#9
CobraCommander Watch Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Wolfsburg, Germany Posts: 15 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It can get annoying OTOH. I fired three torps into this nice little chaos at a troop ship and an T2 stopped and seemingly discussing who`s to go first, and guess what: A coastal merchant drove in the way, sucking up all the precious fish

07-26-05, 08:14 PM	#10
The Mad Asshatter Seaman Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 35 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	Did convoys actually scatter or zigzag when a ship was sunk? I would have thought that the best response would be to push on and send an escort out to scare away the sub.

08-06-05, 08:05 PM	#15
Patboot Engineer Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 212 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I get em frequently- I call em "Crazy Ivan" convoys. Usually in the NW corner of AM grid, normally 3-4 T2's maybe a T3, 3-4 C2's, and about 10 smallies and coasties. Radical course changes, no real formation held long , but a good obvious base course. And no escort at all......Gun-O-Rama!