SonarDC_fix Mod fixes a small bug....

Jungman · 07-14-05, 07:04 PM

For those using RuB or the original SonarDC Mod, I found a small buglet when creating SonarDC_20 in the original SonarDC Mod.

The Type 144A sonar was off by one hex space causing any DD carrying the Type 144A active sonar (usually Middle year '43 US DD) to still be at the default zero range detection. The fixed version puts it at 200 meters to lose lock like the rest of the sonars.

SonarDC_fix Mod

http://rapidshare.de/files/3066060/SonarDC_fix.zip.html

Type 144A active sonar was used around 1943 by one UK DD, and mostly US DD until about 1944 when replaced by the even better Type 147A.

EDIT IMPORTANT: Wrong file uploaded, please redownload. Darn, it is not my day...

ridgewayranger · 07-19-05, 03:41 PM

I was quite surprised to read that these sonars were American. Iwas a sonar operator back in 1948 using both sets in British ships. It was not possible to estimate depth with 144, due to the beam shape, and of course increased diving depths meant boats could be below the main beam, but the addition of a second set with less range but with a flat wedge shaped beam known as "Q" and mounted below the main oscillator at an angle allowed for the detection at greater depths and made it possible to estimate depth when the echo moved from one beam into the other.The type 147 was a depth predicting set designed to overcome the 144 limitation. It was never very successful. Basically it tilted back and depth was worked out trigonometrically, based on angle of tilt and horizontal range. The only time I ever knew it to work was in the simulator. As far as I know, the Americans concentrated on the omnidirectional set while the rest of us used the rotatable narrow beam, similar to radar. Detection was problematical over 2000 yards except in perfect conditions. Another limitation ( still is) was speed. Over about 12 knots background water noise masked everything else, and there was the risk of damaging the underwater dome, which had to be raised before speed could be increased. Hope this explains some of the real limitations of submarine detection in WW2.
Jim O
Ex.TASI, Royal Navy.

CCIP · 07-19-05, 05:52 PM

Wow, thanks for the input!

Unfortunately, what you mention is hardly if at all implemented in the game. This, to me, is the biggest problem with the sonar: there is a huge number of factors that the sonar simply doesn't account for, at all. The best illustration is its ability to keep a solid 'lock' on you while another ship's depth charges are bursting all around the boat.

So, sad though it may be, most of the sonar fixes for a long time have been very abstract and having little to do with real detection except one thing: limiting the chances of enemy success to realistic values.

v!por · 07-20-05, 08:14 AM

Gents:

According to "Modern Submarine Warfare" by Miller and Jordan published in 1987 the sonar even when the XXI was at sea was ineffective beyond 122 meters (ap 400 feet) .

According to these authors the XXI could dive safely to @700 ft or @ 213meters. I had read elsewhere it could go down to @1,000 feet at best . It could travel underwater at 16.7 knots for 72 minutes; 12 knots at 5 hours; 5.2 knots (stealth mode) for 72 hours; and its snorkel could not be picked up by allied airborn radar ... especially sea state 2. (what is the equivalent in waive height in SH3?

I have been playing around with dif boats and in January of 1943 I am using a VIIC 1/42 (cheating?) and even when traveling at quiet ... 2knts at below 150 meters ... or down to any depth...to 225 meters and they are dc around me at or around the same depth!!!

What was the max depth of dc in Jan 1943? I thought it had a max of 194 meters....

Finally: how do I mod the game to buy the XXI? I want to start a late campaign and see what would happen in mid 2003 with this model....

OH YES! Thank you Jung for the mod to fix the Air attack time to 1x .... now I dive my ass as fast as can... change course... down to50 meters and survive the wiave after waive of ac....

thank you gents

SeaSlug_U999 · 07-22-05, 08:24 AM

Got a question. Besides the different sound you get in the sub when pinged, has the rubber coating any effect in the boat stealth(iness)? The same question applies for the anti-radar coating of your snorkel.

I mean is it coded somewhere in the .dat files?

oRGy · 07-22-05, 12:46 PM

Interesting to hear from a real life sonar operator of the period - and the ephemeral nature of threads makes me think it would be a good idea if some modders put some of the accumulated technical and experiental knowledge about these sort of issues up on the communitymanuals wiki.

And of course, the best way to get the game as you want it would be to develop an open-source subsim, but wisha.

kholemann · 07-27-05, 12:19 PM

Google Alberich and see the interesting stuff found. For some reason, in the campaign that I am in, my sub is in the fall of '41 and I am being offered this which, in reality (so it would seem) wasn't available until late in the war ('44). I am just wondering it I should get it. I plan on moving to the IXC as soon as it is available (I will have to transfer to a Flotilla that would have it) as soon as the war starts with the USA. So I am thinking that whatever I have available now will also be available for the IXC...

joea · 07-27-05, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

Wow, thanks for the input!

Unfortunately, what you mention is hardly if at all implemented in the game. This, to me, is the biggest problem with the sonar: there is a huge number of factors that the sonar simply doesn't account for, at all. The best illustration is its ability to keep a solid 'lock' on you while another ship's depth charges are bursting all around the boat.

So, sad though it may be, most of the sonar fixes for a long time have been very abstract and having little to do with real detection except one thing: limiting the chances of enemy success to realistic values.

Did you see this thread CCIP?
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=40781

Hmmm :hmm:

Jungman · 07-27-05, 07:20 PM

That is for your own crew and Uboat active sonar; not the enemy in Sensors.cfg.

Enemy sonar is in Sim.cfg. It has no setting for noise factor.

TteFAboB · 12-21-05, 01:11 PM

Is there a new mirror for this? The link is dead.

Marhkimov · 12-21-05, 01:24 PM

All new files are fixed. You don't have to DL this...

WolfyBrandon · 12-21-05, 01:24 PM

There is a download for it located under the general mods section here.

http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/

Wolfy

TteFAboB · 12-21-05, 04:17 PM

Thanks!

07-14-05, 07:04 PM	#1
Jungman Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 596 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	SonarDC_fix Mod fixes a small bug.... For those using RuB or the original SonarDC Mod, I found a small buglet when creating SonarDC_20 in the original SonarDC Mod. The Type 144A sonar was off by one hex space causing any DD carrying the Type 144A active sonar (usually Middle year '43 US DD) to still be at the default zero range detection. The fixed version puts it at 200 meters to lose lock like the rest of the sonars. SonarDC_fix Mod http://rapidshare.de/files/3066060/SonarDC_fix.zip.html Type 144A active sonar was used around 1943 by one UK DD, and mostly US DD until about 1944 when replaced by the even better Type 147A. EDIT IMPORTANT: Wrong file uploaded, please redownload. Darn, it is not my day...

07-19-05, 03:41 PM	#2
ridgewayranger Frogman Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ipswich, England Posts: 302 Downloads: 281 Uploads: 0	Sonar Type 144/147 I was quite surprised to read that these sonars were American. Iwas a sonar operator back in 1948 using both sets in British ships. It was not possible to estimate depth with 144, due to the beam shape, and of course increased diving depths meant boats could be below the main beam, but the addition of a second set with less range but with a flat wedge shaped beam known as "Q" and mounted below the main oscillator at an angle allowed for the detection at greater depths and made it possible to estimate depth when the echo moved from one beam into the other.The type 147 was a depth predicting set designed to overcome the 144 limitation. It was never very successful. Basically it tilted back and depth was worked out trigonometrically, based on angle of tilt and horizontal range. The only time I ever knew it to work was in the simulator. As far as I know, the Americans concentrated on the omnidirectional set while the rest of us used the rotatable narrow beam, similar to radar. Detection was problematical over 2000 yards except in perfect conditions. Another limitation ( still is) was speed. Over about 12 knots background water noise masked everything else, and there was the risk of damaging the underwater dome, which had to be raised before speed could be increased. Hope this explains some of the real limitations of submarine detection in WW2. Jim O Ex.TASI, Royal Navy.

07-19-05, 05:52 PM	#3
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Wow, thanks for the input! Unfortunately, what you mention is hardly if at all implemented in the game. This, to me, is the biggest problem with the sonar: there is a huge number of factors that the sonar simply doesn't account for, at all. The best illustration is its ability to keep a solid 'lock' on you while another ship's depth charges are bursting all around the boat. So, sad though it may be, most of the sonar fixes for a long time have been very abstract and having little to do with real detection except one thing: limiting the chances of enemy success to realistic values. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

07-20-05, 08:14 AM	#4
v!por Watch Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 26 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Inaccurate sonar abilities Gents: According to "Modern Submarine Warfare" by Miller and Jordan published in 1987 the sonar even when the XXI was at sea was ineffective beyond 122 meters (ap 400 feet) . According to these authors the XXI could dive safely to @700 ft or @ 213meters. I had read elsewhere it could go down to @1,000 feet at best . It could travel underwater at 16.7 knots for 72 minutes; 12 knots at 5 hours; 5.2 knots (stealth mode) for 72 hours; and its snorkel could not be picked up by allied airborn radar ... especially sea state 2. (what is the equivalent in waive height in SH3? I have been playing around with dif boats and in January of 1943 I am using a VIIC 1/42 (cheating?) and even when traveling at quiet ... 2knts at below 150 meters ... or down to any depth...to 225 meters and they are dc around me at or around the same depth!!! What was the max depth of dc in Jan 1943? I thought it had a max of 194 meters.... Finally: how do I mod the game to buy the XXI? I want to start a late campaign and see what would happen in mid 2003 with this model.... OH YES! Thank you Jung for the mod to fix the Air attack time to 1x .... now I dive my ass as fast as can... change course... down to50 meters and survive the wiave after waive of ac.... thank you gents

12-21-05, 01:24 PM	#11
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	All new files are fixed. You don't have to DL this... __________________ It takes two to tango

07-22-05, 08:24 AM	#5
SeaSlug_U999 Seaman Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK Posts: 35 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Got a question. Besides the different sound you get in the sub when pinged, has the rubber coating any effect in the boat stealth(iness)? The same question applies for the anti-radar coating of your snorkel. I mean is it coded somewhere in the .dat files?

07-22-05, 12:46 PM	#6
oRGy Crusty Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 648 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Interesting to hear from a real life sonar operator of the period - and the ephemeral nature of threads makes me think it would be a good idea if some modders put some of the accumulated technical and experiental knowledge about these sort of issues up on the communitymanuals wiki. And of course, the best way to get the game as you want it would be to develop an open-source subsim, but wisha.

07-27-05, 12:19 PM	#7
kholemann Gunner Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 98 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	Google Alberich and see the interesting stuff found. For some reason, in the campaign that I am in, my sub is in the fall of '41 and I am being offered this which, in reality (so it would seem) wasn't available until late in the war ('44). I am just wondering it I should get it. I plan on moving to the IXC as soon as it is available (I will have to transfer to a Flotilla that would have it) as soon as the war starts with the USA. So I am thinking that whatever I have available now will also be available for the IXC...

07-27-05, 07:20 PM	#9
Jungman Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 596 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	That is for your own crew and Uboat active sonar; not the enemy in Sensors.cfg. Enemy sonar is in Sim.cfg. It has no setting for noise factor.

12-21-05, 01:11 PM	#10
TteFAboB Admiral Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,247 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Is there a new mirror for this? The link is dead.

12-21-05, 01:24 PM	#12
WolfyBrandon Frogman Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: U-957: Patrol 05 In Progress... Posts: 306 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	There is a download for it located under the general mods section here. http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/ Wolfy __________________ [Current JSGME Mods Used In My Game] "Dave, you will always be remembered! R.I.P." U-759

12-21-05, 04:17 PM	#13
TteFAboB Admiral Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,247 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Thanks!