A killer destroyer?

pmcmull · 11-24-23, 04:10 PM

So I just got started with SH3 like a week ago. I downloaded and installed the GWX3 Onealex version of it. It is working now after the 2nd install went well. It works well and looks very good and I am getting used to the different controls and instruments. After getting thru the training missions, I have been trying some of the single missions. I was trying the "happy time" mission because of knowing something about the historical situation and wanting an easier mission to get some experience.
After starting it several times, I have yet to complete the objectives and survive to get back to base. I have 3 runs where I met the objective to sink 25K tons of shipping and the same thing happened each time. Near the end of getting enough ships hit and sunk, the escort destroyers finally come in. But the ASW effort is not particularly effective. I get the accomplishment of the mission. By this point I have no torpedoes left or maybe 1 or 2. So I go deep and try to move away from the convoy to safety and to surface the boat. Within just a few minutes of getting the win condition a destroyer comes in from somewhere and makes a pass over the top. I have the boat at 80 or 90 meters, and have no damage or only minor damage. He makes a perfect Depth Charge pattern and kills my sub. Either instant or flooding and sinking to depth.
Now this is fall of '39. It is the happy time because sonar and ASW tools are not yet effective. Is this destroyer a ringer? He has come from the future with improved sonar and weapons? I'd like to be able to finish the mission and move on.

Pat

blackswan40 · 11-24-23, 05:04 PM

Hi Pat get down to 160-180 mtrs Z key to rig for silent running n slip away at 1 knot job done.

pmcmull · 11-24-23, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackswan40

Hi Pat get down to 160-180 mtrs Z key to rig for silent running n slip away at 1 knot job done.

I have to go deeper? Not used to those depths. From SH4 never went deeper than 300. Have not played past late '42 in that campaign.

Brings up one more question. If the ships can no longer locate you at those depths, do you have to go silent, or can you go at like the 2 speed ( 4 kts) and get out of there faster?

Mister_M · 11-25-23, 04:04 AM

No more than 1 knot, else the destroyer can hear and locate you.... But I agree with you that it was probably much easier in real life to get away from the escort ships at that time...

Hooston · 11-25-23, 06:26 AM

I'm afraid GWX is very hot on use of passive hydrophones by escorts. This is their primary means of getting contact. If you shoot a steam torpedo, go fast or reload you will be picked up from several km away.

In game the escorts will head stright for your location when you hit something, so you may as well go fairly fast at first (I use ahead 1/3) to: get as far away as possible, dive down to 140m+, point your butt at them. When the escorts are a few km away switch to silent running and go slow. If the wind is 4m/s or less slow means ~1 knot.

If you are being pinged with a high pulse rate wait for the escort to speed up on its attack run and the pings to stop, then go fast and change depth by ~40m. The speeding up is realistic, but game ASDIC seems to pinpoint your depth very accurately so a depth change is also very effective.
Go quiet again once the charges have exploded or the escorts will pick you up again. If they do not detect you they will continue to attack the last known position for about 30 mins. In real life they would go slow and sweep for an ASDIC contact for much longer until finally dropping a charge for "scare effect" before moving on. Late war, they would hang around for a whole day!

I recently watched "The Cruel Sea" again. Being released only 8 years after the end of the war, the historical accuracy was really good. The corvette (and later frigate) was banging away on ASDIC all day and passive detection seemed a secondary feature.

I've changed to NYGM recently and it feels better to me. Early war, creeping away appears to be more effective and you can reload and go ahead 1/3 if the escorts are at medium range.

pmcmull · 11-25-23, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooston

I'm afraid GWX is very hot on use of passive hydrophones by escorts. This is their primary means of getting contact. If you shoot a steam torpedo, go fast or reload you will be picked up from several km away.

In game the escorts will head stright for your location when you hit something, so you may as well go fairly fast at first (I use ahead 1/3) to: get as far away as possible, dive down to 140m+, point your butt at them. When the escorts are a few km away switch to silent running and go slow. If the wind is 4m/s or less slow means ~1 knot.

If you are being pinged with a high pulse rate wait for the escort to speed up on its attack run and the pings to stop, then go fast and change depth by ~40m. The speeding up is realistic, but game ASDIC seems to pinpoint your depth very accurately so a depth change is also very effective.
Go quiet again once the charges have exploded or the escorts will pick you up again. If they do not detect you they will continue to attack the last known position for about 30 mins. In real life they would go slow and sweep for an ASDIC contact for much longer until finally dropping a charge for "scare effect" before moving on. Late war, they would hang around for a whole day!

I recently watched "The Cruel Sea" again. Being released only 8 years after the end of the war, the historical accuracy was really good. The corvette (and later frigate) was banging away on ASDIC all day and passive detection seemed a secondary feature.

I've changed to NYGM recently and it feels better to me. Early war, creeping away appears to be more effective and you can reload and go ahead 1/3 if the escorts are at medium range.

Wow, thanks for the advice and the details. I guess I better treat them all as 'killer' destroyers. That still kind of goes around the question that this is the first year of the war and the escorts tools are not supposed to be that good. I think you are saying that is the way it plays on SH3.

By the way I did complete the mission on the next replay. But I did have it quite low on the realism settings. Including the faster reload on the torpedoes which made it much easier. One of the plays where I got killed I had it on realistic reloads. So I had to hang around a LOT longer and the destroyers were getting much more active.

Pat

Hooston · 11-26-23, 02:58 PM

In real life until mid 1943 boats would generally use the daylight hours to get into position on the surface, then attack at night, also on the surface, with their torpedoes. Diving was something they did under air attack, and when they were being shot at and couldn't outrun the escorts. You can do this in game but I find that I can see way too much at night - "How does he not see me?" - and it doesn't feel right to me. This is down to the exact mods I have loaded on my rubbish PC.
Night surface attacks with torpedoes require balls of steel but give you much better tactical awareness and mobility. No need to worry about hydrophones (why not? there's a clue there about how effective they really were) or ASDIC.

11-24-23, 04:10 PM	#1
pmcmull Bosun Join Date: Aug 2023 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 66 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	A killer destroyer? So I just got started with SH3 like a week ago. I downloaded and installed the GWX3 Onealex version of it. It is working now after the 2nd install went well. It works well and looks very good and I am getting used to the different controls and instruments. After getting thru the training missions, I have been trying some of the single missions. I was trying the "happy time" mission because of knowing something about the historical situation and wanting an easier mission to get some experience. After starting it several times, I have yet to complete the objectives and survive to get back to base. I have 3 runs where I met the objective to sink 25K tons of shipping and the same thing happened each time. Near the end of getting enough ships hit and sunk, the escort destroyers finally come in. But the ASW effort is not particularly effective. I get the accomplishment of the mission. By this point I have no torpedoes left or maybe 1 or 2. So I go deep and try to move away from the convoy to safety and to surface the boat. Within just a few minutes of getting the win condition a destroyer comes in from somewhere and makes a pass over the top. I have the boat at 80 or 90 meters, and have no damage or only minor damage. He makes a perfect Depth Charge pattern and kills my sub. Either instant or flooding and sinking to depth. Now this is fall of '39. It is the happy time because sonar and ASW tools are not yet effective. Is this destroyer a ringer? He has come from the future with improved sonar and weapons? I'd like to be able to finish the mission and move on. Pat

11-24-23, 05:04 PM	#2
blackswan40 GWX - KC Crash Test Dummy Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: IN THE STEEL SHARKS VIRTUAL OCEAN Posts: 2,782 Downloads: 603 Uploads: 31	Hi Pat get down to 160-180 mtrs Z key to rig for silent running n slip away at 1 knot job done. __________________ Someone Had to Make the Tea

11-25-23, 06:26 AM	#5
Hooston 中国水兵 Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 276 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Game tactics versus movie tactics I'm afraid GWX is very hot on use of passive hydrophones by escorts. This is their primary means of getting contact. If you shoot a steam torpedo, go fast or reload you will be picked up from several km away. In game the escorts will head stright for your location when you hit something, so you may as well go fairly fast at first (I use ahead 1/3) to: get as far away as possible, dive down to 140m+, point your butt at them. When the escorts are a few km away switch to silent running and go slow. If the wind is 4m/s or less slow means ~1 knot. If you are being pinged with a high pulse rate wait for the escort to speed up on its attack run and the pings to stop, then go fast and change depth by ~40m. The speeding up is realistic, but game ASDIC seems to pinpoint your depth very accurately so a depth change is also very effective. Go quiet again once the charges have exploded or the escorts will pick you up again. If they do not detect you they will continue to attack the last known position for about 30 mins. In real life they would go slow and sweep for an ASDIC contact for much longer until finally dropping a charge for "scare effect" before moving on. Late war, they would hang around for a whole day! I recently watched "The Cruel Sea" again. Being released only 8 years after the end of the war, the historical accuracy was really good. The corvette (and later frigate) was banging away on ASDIC all day and passive detection seemed a secondary feature. I've changed to NYGM recently and it feels better to me. Early war, creeping away appears to be more effective and you can reload and go ahead 1/3 if the escorts are at medium range. Last edited by Hooston; 11-25-23 at 07:21 AM.

11-26-23, 02:58 PM	#7
Hooston 中国水兵 Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 276 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	The game has the wrong emphasis In real life until mid 1943 boats would generally use the daylight hours to get into position on the surface, then attack at night, also on the surface, with their torpedoes. Diving was something they did under air attack, and when they were being shot at and couldn't outrun the escorts. You can do this in game but I find that I can see way too much at night - "How does he not see me?" - and it doesn't feel right to me. This is down to the exact mods I have loaded on my rubbish PC. Night surface attacks with torpedoes require balls of steel but give you much better tactical awareness and mobility. No need to worry about hydrophones (why not? there's a clue there about how effective they really were) or ASDIC.

11-25-23, 04:04 AM	#4
Mister_M Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 923 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	No more than 1 knot, else the destroyer can hear and locate you.... But I agree with you that it was probably much easier in real life to get away from the escort ships at that time...