[TEC] Mission Editor, Triggers, and Time

[KaleunMarco]

i remember not too long ago someone posted a description of how the Time variable works within a Trigger using the ME.

i am playing a mission where the designed has plugged in a date to a trigger, say December 7, 1941 at 0900.
however, that date/time comes and goes and no trigger, event, nada.

so, clearly, the trigger/event does not work intuitively.

then, how does it work? anyone? anyone? anyone?

[propbeanie]

The "Timer" Trigger is just that - a timer. Think of a wind-up egg timer from the 1970s. It starts at 0:00 and counts down in minutes, seconds, hours, etc. Put a timer trigger into a mission, and then go look at it in a text editor. Instead of giving you a "date" per se, it might say something like -971 instead for its countdown (hours?? I cannot remember...). Anyway, the Timer's "zero" is the date of the mis file that it is in, NOT the game's date. By default, you might have a 19380101 date, maybe a 19400101 Parameter date, and that is what the timer counts from, in spite of what the "date" shows in the ME's display. In fact, do that. Build a new mission, open the parameters menu, and change the date of the mission to something like December 3, 1943, and you'll notice that the time/date in the Timer trigger has now changed. The really strange thing comes into play when you "date" a mis file, and then the player gets assigned that mission either before or after that set date, and the timer is off still. It works fine for Single Missions or Patrols usually, but still, mis-date something and the Timer will fail. Silent Hunter 'logic'... It can be an exercise in frustration in a career file.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

The "Timer" Trigger is just that - a timer. Think of a wind-up egg timer from the 1970s. It starts at 0:00 and counts down in minutes, seconds, hours, etc. Put a timer trigger into a mission, and then go look at it in a text editor. Instead of giving you a "date" per se, it might say something like -971 instead for its countdown (hours?? I cannot remember...). Anyway, the Timer's "zero" is the date of the mis file that it is in, NOT the game's date. By default, you might have a 19380101 date, maybe a 19400101 Parameter date, and that is what the timer counts from, in spite of what the "date" shows in the ME's display. In fact, do that. Build a new mission, open the parameters menu, and change the date of the mission to something like December 3, 1943, and you'll notice that the time/date in the Timer trigger has now changed. The really strange thing comes into play when you "date" a mis file, and then the player gets assigned that mission either before or after that set date, and the timer is off still. It works fine for Single Missions or Patrols usually, but still, mis-date something and the Timer will fail. Silent Hunter 'logic'... It can be an exercise in frustration in a career file.

yes, i did notice that the "date" was converted to a number of minutes from the start of the Mission Date to the time of the trigger.

yes, now, i understand that the trigger-date-time starts from the onset of the career-mission and NOT the start of the mission-date in the MIS file, which is somewhat counter-intuitive but this IS Ubi.....

so, how does one use the Mission Date to execute a trigger (or a programmer ) during a career-mission on any one particular date and time?

my first SWAG is that we would have to recompute/reenter the Mission Start Date (mis-file) to match the Patrol Start Date (UPC-file) prior to shoving off on the mission.

As i suspected, my SWAG was correct.
but this is not a technique that every player can use.

[propbeanie]

Exactly... lol - 'tis better to avoid the use of the "Timer" altogether. If it functioned as it SEEMS like it should, it ~would be~ quite useful... but an IF-THEN-ELSE 'logic' of some form would be more-so... sigh

[propbeanie]

KaleunMarco and I have been bouncing ideas around, wondering WHY the triggers are so squirrely...

It looks like your mission is all set-up, ready to go, so you go to test it, and NOTHING HAPPENS from your triggers. I do remember reading about this issue somewhere before, and "time" is at the root of all evil in the Silent Hunter games. Not only does it count from "zero" instead of an actual date, but it counts in seconds / minutes / hours depending upon which aspect of the game you are modding.

With this little kernel of memory irritating me, I decided to experiment with the Mission date, as listed in the mis file header, the CfgDate= line of the involved "target" of spawning from a trigger (a ship, plane or sub), the GameEntryDate= and GameEntryTime= lines versus the AvailStartDate= and AvailStartTime= lines.

So, CfgDate HAS to be after Mission Date, and it has to be the first of a month. Mission date can be any valid date. For example,
[Mission]
...
Year=1944
Month=1
Day=1
Hour=0
Minute=0
means that your CfgDate can be no earlier than 19440101. Likewise though, the GameAvailabilityDate and Time cannot be before the same date and time as the mission.

Then the "revelation" (of old info from someone else), your actual GameEntryDate and Time, which are dated later than the mission for the purpose of being "spawned" by a "Trigger", can be NO LATER than 120 days later. Not 120 days and one second, but no more than 120 days, which is 2880 hours, or 172,800 minutes. NOT 172800.016666 minutes... your "target" will not spawn after 172,800 minutes, or 120 days... You can "go around the corner" from December 1943 into February 1944 no problem, but say you use "19431216" as your Available, your actual GameEntry should be no later than "19440414", else the trigger fails to cause the spawn...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

KaleunMarco and I have been bouncing ideas around, wondering WHY the triggers are so squirrely...

It looks like your mission is all set-up, ready to go, so you go to test it, and NOTHING HAPPENS from your triggers. I do remember reading about this issue somewhere before, and "time" is at the root of all evil in the Silent Hunter games. Not only does it count from "zero" instead of an actual date, but it counts in seconds / minutes / hours depending upon which aspect of the game you are modding.

With this little kernel of memory irritating me, I decided to experiment with the Mission date, as listed in the mis file header, the CfgDate= line of the involved "target" of spawning from a trigger (a ship, plane or sub), the GameEntryDate= and GameEntryTime= lines versus the AvailStartDate= and AvailStartTime= lines.

So, CfgDate HAS to be after Mission Date, and it has to be the first of a month. Mission date can be any valid date. For example,
[Mission]
...
Year=1944
Month=1
Day=1
Hour=0
Minute=0
means that your CfgDate can be no earlier than 19440101. Likewise though, the GameAvailabilityDate and Time cannot be before the same date and time as the mission.

Then the "revelation" (of old info from someone else), your actual GameEntryDate and Time, which are dated later than the mission for the purpose of being "spawned" by a "Trigger", can be NO LATER than 120 days later. Not 120 days and one second, but no more than 120 days, which is 2880 hours, or 172,800 minutes. NOT 172800.016666 minutes... your "target" will not spawn after 172,800 minutes, or 120 days... You can "go around the corner" from December 1943 into February 1944 no problem, but say you use "19431216" as your Available, your actual GameEntry should be no later than "19440414", else the trigger fails to cause the spawn...

great work testing , PB, however it is after 6 pm here and my eyes started counter-rotating in the middle of your second paragraph.

i am going to try reading through this again in the morning when my brain is fresher.