Feature Request - Convoy Location Practice

entrippy · 01-07-21, 02:59 AM

Request:
A Convoy location problem generator based on the in game map tool to assist players in learning the dark art of convoy location finding.

Detail:
As with the actual game, a sub and convoy location is defined, with the convoy also having a heading and speed attribute (all hidden from player).

Unlike the normal game play, the player is restricted to the map screen, and time does not pass in real time, instead moving forward at set increments e.g 5 mins, when prompted, for a set number of intervals.

At each prompt, the player is asked to choose a heading and speed to move their sub ("none" being a valid option).

After input, time is incremented, the subs location on the map updated based on the inputed values, the convoys location is also updated based on its speed and heading, but this remains hidden, and a new bearing to the convoy, based on this updated relative position, is given.

After the max number of prompts is reached, the convoys origin, heading, path, and current location are revealed on the map.

During this entire exercise, the player is free to draw plots on the map the practice the steps of solving the navigation solution.

After the convoy course is revealed, the player is able to assess how close they were to a valid solution, if their planned intercept was workable or if they were entirely off the mark.

Options: It might be that someone who understands different approaches to solving convoy locations could justify making the interval length and count customisable, either for each problem, or even for each interval, but I'll leave that for the experts.

Justification:
There is nothing more satisfying than nailing trigonomic navigation problems or firing solutions. But while there is a tutorial on finding firing solutions with the TDC, the only way to practice convoy finding is in game, in real time. This can take between 3-10 mins wait between bearings, so 12-40 mins total (3 measurements+1 forecast).
Having the above as an inbuilt tutorial would allow players to step through the exercise of location finding, without the drawbacks of realtime and in game variables (being rushed to complete a step, waiting 5-10 mins for the next bearing, spending 20-40 mins working and waiting just to find you got it wrong and have to start over, or having to account for unreliable hydrophone operators

)

Existing solutions:
I have built something like this myself (https://github.com/entrippy/wolfpack-problem-generator), but the end result is inferior to a solution integrated in game as:
1. It's hard to replicate or find a close analog to the in game plotting tools that give the player distance and bearing feedback. My tool contains none, and just generates lat, long, and relative bearings. charting and mapping is left to the user.
2. Integrating the problem generator with any tools you do find is really clunky and introduces its own errors.
3. My problem generator uses one set of calculations or approximations for earth curvature and magnetic deviation that does not necessarily align with the calculations that the mapping solution might use, leading the the solutions to look.... odd and potentially gives false positives/negatives.

Pisces · 01-07-21, 11:17 AM

Remember that the game is a multiplayer game in the beginning. And you talk about the player in singular form, rather than plural. Each crew member would need to get something out of this gameplay, not just the Kaleun. And each of the 4 boats when there are multiple occupied.

entrippy · 01-07-21, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pisces

Remember that the game is a multiplayer game in the beginning. And you talk about the player in singular form, rather than plural. Each crew member would need to get something out of this gameplay, not just the Kaleun. And each of the 4 boats when there are multiple occupied.

Its true that this is a multiplayer game, but as with the TDC tutorial there are already existing components designed to teach an individual player, (not to mention the ability to play single player using friendly AI). So it is not unreasonable to suggest further content targeted at the individual. As such this is not intended to be a component of multiplay, but an addition to the games tutorial package for players to use individually, the benefit of which would be felt when they then go on to apply it in multiplayer missions.

The overall gist is that this kind of tutorial would be more effective if it had the benefit of assets/libraries/classes/functions that are available to the game, as opposed to trying to create an external analog that mimics it poorly.

I made no attempt to suggest where and how this might be made accessible once the application has been started as while I feel my idea has merit to help players get more value out of the game, the developers, would know best how to best accomplish this in line with the code base and their overall vision.

Aktungbby · 01-08-21, 12:05 AM

entrippy!

nice posts.

mobucks · 01-17-21, 01:28 AM

start game

use scope to look for visual contact

if no visual, dive to periscope depth

use hydrophone to locate sound bearing of convoy

surface to that bearing going full speed

wait 5 minutes

if no visual contact is made in that time, dive and listen again, adjust course as needed and repeat the last two steps

IMO you're over complicating something that isnt too hard to do in this game. The Silent Hunter games was harder.

entrippy · 01-17-21, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobucks

start game

use scope to look for visual contact

if no visual, dive to periscope depth

use hydrophone to locate sound bearing of convoy

surface to that bearing going full speed

wait 5 minutes

if no visual contact is made in that time, dive and listen again, adjust course as needed and repeat the last two steps

IMO you're over complicating something that isnt too hard to do in this game. The Silent Hunter games was harder.

Have you tried to do this while moving yourself?
There is an entirely different set of triangulation steps that can be performed while on the move, but they are far more complex to master, for example take a look at the later/Alternative methods mentioned in here

http://ricojansen.nl/downloads/Four_...2C%20Neuro.pdf

Sorry if I didn't make this clear, the stationary approach is simple and does not require any additional guidance, but to say that everything should end with the stationary method is an over simplification.

If you're wondering WHY someone might want to use these alternative methods; firstly, they can reduce time to contact by allowing the boat to manoeuvre while solving, and secondly.... just because.

01-07-21, 02:59 AM	#1
entrippy Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 12 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Feature Request - Convoy Location Practice Request: A Convoy location problem generator based on the in game map tool to assist players in learning the dark art of convoy location finding. Detail: As with the actual game, a sub and convoy location is defined, with the convoy also having a heading and speed attribute (all hidden from player). Unlike the normal game play, the player is restricted to the map screen, and time does not pass in real time, instead moving forward at set increments e.g 5 mins, when prompted, for a set number of intervals. At each prompt, the player is asked to choose a heading and speed to move their sub ("none" being a valid option). After input, time is incremented, the subs location on the map updated based on the inputed values, the convoys location is also updated based on its speed and heading, but this remains hidden, and a new bearing to the convoy, based on this updated relative position, is given. After the max number of prompts is reached, the convoys origin, heading, path, and current location are revealed on the map. During this entire exercise, the player is free to draw plots on the map the practice the steps of solving the navigation solution. After the convoy course is revealed, the player is able to assess how close they were to a valid solution, if their planned intercept was workable or if they were entirely off the mark. Options: It might be that someone who understands different approaches to solving convoy locations could justify making the interval length and count customisable, either for each problem, or even for each interval, but I'll leave that for the experts. Justification: There is nothing more satisfying than nailing trigonomic navigation problems or firing solutions. But while there is a tutorial on finding firing solutions with the TDC, the only way to practice convoy finding is in game, in real time. This can take between 3-10 mins wait between bearings, so 12-40 mins total (3 measurements+1 forecast). Having the above as an inbuilt tutorial would allow players to step through the exercise of location finding, without the drawbacks of realtime and in game variables (being rushed to complete a step, waiting 5-10 mins for the next bearing, spending 20-40 mins working and waiting just to find you got it wrong and have to start over, or having to account for unreliable hydrophone operators ) Existing solutions: I have built something like this myself (https://github.com/entrippy/wolfpack-problem-generator), but the end result is inferior to a solution integrated in game as: 1. It's hard to replicate or find a close analog to the in game plotting tools that give the player distance and bearing feedback. My tool contains none, and just generates lat, long, and relative bearings. charting and mapping is left to the user. 2. Integrating the problem generator with any tools you do find is really clunky and introduces its own errors. 3. My problem generator uses one set of calculations or approximations for earth curvature and magnetic deviation that does not necessarily align with the calculations that the mapping solution might use, leading the the solutions to look.... odd and potentially gives false positives/negatives.

01-07-21, 11:17 AM	#2
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	Remember that the game is a multiplayer game in the beginning. And you talk about the player in singular form, rather than plural. Each crew member would need to get something out of this gameplay, not just the Kaleun. And each of the 4 boats when there are multiple occupied. __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

01-08-21, 12:05 AM	#4
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 29,973 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard! entrippy! nice posts. __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

01-17-21, 01:28 AM	#5
mobucks Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 713 Downloads: 209 Uploads: 0	start game use scope to look for visual contact if no visual, dive to periscope depth use hydrophone to locate sound bearing of convoy surface to that bearing going full speed wait 5 minutes if no visual contact is made in that time, dive and listen again, adjust course as needed and repeat the last two steps IMO you're over complicating something that isnt too hard to do in this game. The Silent Hunter games was harder.