What do you think of these "Seven Tenets"?

[Torvald Von Mansee]

• One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
• The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
• One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
• The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
• Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
• People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
• Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

DON'T Google where it comes from...just discuss

[Rockstar]

• One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

In accordance with reason? Who determines whats reasonable and when it should be applied? How about just keep it simple and 'just be'.

• The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

How can justice prevail over laws and institutions? With out law there is no justice. Instead how about we strive to have just and equal application of the law.

• One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

no argument there

• The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

I just cant see the person being offended saying to an offensive person I respect you. Depending on the severity of the offense I might just turn around and leave or knock you out with a punch to the nose. Instead how about we learn NOT to be an offensive butthead. And when someone tells us we are offensive maybe consider changing tack.

Keep in mind the definition of respect is also subjective. Respect is based on something another person has said, achieved or done that places them above the rest of the herd, causing others to stand in awe and admiration. You may have not done a damn thing in life that deserves any respect especially if you've offended someone. But it should never prevent us from being we kind to one another and to love our neighbor.

• Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs

Who determines whats best? It might be fine for you just dont impose your beliefs on me.

• People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

Good point

• Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

I think demanding respect when it isn't earned, expecting me to respect someone who has offended me, and setting rules demanding I believe what you believe. Doesn't inspire a whole lot of nobility nor has anything to do with compassion and is far from being wise.

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

[LIST][*]One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

Compassion and empathy coming from reason is close to calculated (cynical) care which is not necessarily about caring at all, but to gain something. Compassion and empathy coming from an inherent (in some) inability to see it any other way on the other hand...

[*]The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

Does justice over law make any sense at all?

[*]One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

One's body, I reckon in most cases, is nothing more than a resource to others. It has a price tag attached, and is expendable if need be, again to the aforementioned others. Life is not sacred but a commodity for sale. This is not pretty but it is how this world is run. Just don't say it out loud. We tend to frown upon such ideas.

[*]The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

Seeking to piss off others for the sake of pissing them off, no, no green cards for that. Of course, you have people who are mortally offended if you don't mention their new haircut but that is not what we're talking about here.
We are "funny" animals. Many have beliefs they care strongly for and us humans not being machines, some may react rather vividly if those beliefs are made fun of. It's a known constant. We know all of this. To claim a green card to offend and "you can't do anything about it" is like being 3 years old mentally, insisting that others sort our own mess out. That being said, this is far from a trivial problem with a trivial solution. Factors include local culture, national culture, regional culture, taboos (which in every culture is a real thing), personalities, of which there are close to 8 billion, to mention just a few.

[*]Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

I believe science offers the best of bad ideas (to paraphrase a scientist I forgot the name of) but science alone can not feed the need of every person on earth. Again, close to 8 billion people with hundreds of millions of different ideas of what is important in life. To a few, the meaning of life, Universe and everything is to get a robotic implant to show their dedication to "progress", to some other it's all about sitting in a flower field all day writing poetry, or it could be 42.

[*]People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

This, simply put, is Utopia. It doesn't happen and will never happen on any noticable scale. I would think all have their skeletons in their closets but rarely do we talk about it. Pride, the prospect of monetary loss, loss of power and influence, the prospect of being judged as a lesser being, I would think there are about 6-8 billion keepers of embarrassing secrets in this world.

[*]Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

Fair enough. As guide lines, sure. Just don't be disappointed when reality comes knockin on the door to remind you that someone paid up and your body is now up for spending.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Rockstar wrote: "How can justice prevail over laws and institutions? With out law there is no justice. Instead how about we strive to have just and equal application of the law."


Von Due wrote: "Does justice over law make any sense at all?"


So, you both think the Fugitive Slave Act was just?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugiti...ve_Act_of_1850

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

Rockstar wrote: "How can justice prevail over laws and institutions? With out law there is no justice. Instead how about we strive to have just and equal application of the law."


Von Due wrote: "Does justice over law make any sense at all?"


So, you both think the Fugitive Slave Act was just?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugiti...ve_Act_of_1850

No. The issue here is the word "justice" itself. What _is_ justice? What each and everyone feel is right? Then the word is meaningless, it has no meaning. What is just to one is injust to someone else. Injust justice is an oxymoron.

[Buddahaid]

With regard to respect, I believe everyone deserves an entry level of it where they can express themselves without being shut down. What happens after that is earned.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

Rockstar wrote: "How can justice prevail over laws and institutions? With out law there is no justice. Instead how about we strive to have just and equal application of the law."


Von Due wrote: "Does justice over law make any sense at all?"


So, you both think the Fugitive Slave Act was just?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugiti...ve_Act_of_1850

Justice is whatever society regards as right. People speak the language they hear growing up and the language people like Nat Butler and others heard and grew up with taught them to look upon some black men as property. However many others in society vehemently opposed it and eventually made an impact. In 1855 Wisconsin determined the Act unconstitutional and finally in 1864 it was repealed. What that tells me, as society grows it matures both spiritually and intellectually we can end such things. But the rule of law is what it is and like it or not there is an expectation we follow it. Like the police officer told me when I complained about Maryland's conceal carry 'may issue' clause. If I dont like the law, change it.