Evading destroyers Gwx

pippaman · 12-12-20, 07:15 AM

Hello i came back to SH3 after something like 10 years, and started playing with GWX.
I'm not a veteran by any means but i had my fair share of hours commanding a uboat.

I'm in february 1941 with a VIIIC and for the life of me i can't escape destroyers.
I had 2 destroyers chasing me after a failed aircraft attack and i coulnd't shake them off.
I Had 80 meters of depth under the keel.

I tried silent running slowly away: nothing they continuously picked me up with sonar.
Evading at flank speed during depth charging runs, i kept the stopwatch at 30second intervals of flank speed after their run to change course : nothing they picked me up with sonar
Kept evading longer at flank speed: nothing
Flank speed triyng to sneak behind the destroyers (crossing the T on their stern) maybe worked 1 time out of 20.
Even if i manage to evade from them and put 1 or 2 km they've picked me up after somehow (at silent speed / 2kt)
Even if i kept my stern or bow at them to minimize my silhouette didn't work.
Tried resting on the bottom of the sea to no avail.

On top of that silent running wouldn't have worked because i coulnd't keep the depth unless running at 4kt after some minor damage.

Am i missing something?

From what i know destroyers also had limited ammunitions, but from what i read GWX has like 3 times the normal amount so you can't even wait for the destroyers to run out (as from what i know was a ''tactic'')

I actually waited them to run out: one did, the other kept depth charging me with the side launchers only. After 8 hours of ingame time i simply gave up.

Also GWX manual says that around 60mt there's the critical depth for sonar due to the thermal layer and the diverging of the sound path: doesn't look like it.

Is there simply no way to evade and thats it?

Thank you and have a nice day

John Pancoast · 12-12-20, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pippaman

Hello i came back to SH3 after something like 10 years, and started playing with GWX.
I'm not a veteran by any means but i had my fair share of hours commanding a uboat.

I'm in february 1941 with a VIIIC and for the life of me i can't escape destroyers.
I had 2 destroyers chasing me after a failed aircraft attack and i coulnd't shake them off.
I Had 80 meters of depth under the keel.

I tried silent running slowly away: nothing they continuously picked me up with sonar.
Evading at flank speed during depth charging runs, i kept the stopwatch at 30second intervals of flank speed after their run to change course : nothing they picked me up with sonar
Kept evading longer at flank speed: nothing
Flank speed triyng to sneak behind the destroyers (crossing the T on their stern) maybe worked 1 time out of 20.
Even if i manage to evade from them and put 1 or 2 km they've picked me up after somehow (at silent speed / 2kt)
Even if i kept my stern or bow at them to minimize my silhouette didn't work.
Tried resting on the bottom of the sea to no avail.

On top of that silent running wouldn't have worked because i coulnd't keep the depth unless running at 4kt after some minor damage.

Am i missing something?

From what i know destroyers also had limited ammunitions, but from what i read GWX has like 3 times the normal amount so you can't even wait for the destroyers to run out (as from what i know was a ''tactic'')

I actually waited them to run out: one did, the other kept depth charging me with the side launchers only. After 8 hours of ingame time i simply gave up.

Also GWX manual says that around 60mt there's the critical depth for sonar due to the thermal layer and the diverging of the sound path: doesn't look like it.

Is there simply no way to evade and thats it?

Thank you and have a nice day

If I understand your post correctly and you were at only 80 meters depth, that is the heart of the problem.
Shallow water = u-boat death more often than not once detected.

ivanov.ruslan · 12-12-20, 09:15 AM

Try the Stieblers Asdic shallow water from https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=217396, it may help a little

Strange, i've been playing GWX for years, but i never suspected that the destroyers were so bait in 1941.

It's also true that I've been playing since 1942

It has happened to me, but mainly in single missions in the shallow waters around the US east coast

Seth Buttercrump · 12-12-20, 10:41 AM

I'm in a similar position- returning to SHIII and running GWX 3.0

Taking on destroyers IS possible, but there appears to be a caveat:

My current patrol is feb 1945 and I have just retried a save position close to a convoy off the coast of East Anglia. I took out two of the escorts with homing torpedoes, hit another at point blank range, and just watched the 4th blow up through my periscope, having hit it with a stern torpedo from 350m, at which point the game froze and seconds later crashed to the desktop. This is the second time the exact same thing has happened!

A George Russell moment if ever there was one

pippaman · 12-12-20, 11:02 AM

Thank you for your feedback guys!

I got really frustrated but i feared it was the shallow depth and the fact that it probably was like this in reality....

About the stiebler patch i wanted to try h.sie and then stiebler but its the 4th time i restart a career due to messing with various mods so i wanted to wait for another career before starting again.

One more thing: i read through the GWX manual and they talk about that a depth charge run would mess heavily with the hydrophones for up to 10 minutes in real life; they say this is somewhat loosely implemented in the mod. So you can actually push at higher speed for a couple of minutes after a depth charge run or its false? The only times i actually almost made it was when i pushed at flank speed exiting the destroyers circle and then slowing down 1 km away. I think they still picked me up with the sonar though afterwards while i was trying to get away at silent speed

As for bait destroyers in 41: i had a couple of encounters with escorts in late 40 off the coast of ireland with my IID. And it was laughable (too bad i only had 5 torps) , dove to 160mt -> depth charge run -> flank 15 seconds ->silent speed BYE BYE . it was too easy

I guess its the depth the real problem

Aktungbby · 12-12-20, 11:29 AM

pippaman!

John Pancoast · 12-12-20, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pippaman

Thank you for your feedback guys!

I got really frustrated but i feared it was the shallow depth and the fact that it probably was like this in reality....

About the stiebler patch i wanted to try h.sie and then stiebler but its the 4th time i restart a career due to messing with various mods so i wanted to wait for another career before starting again.

One more thing: i read through the GWX manual and they talk about that a depth charge run would mess heavily with the hydrophones for up to 10 minutes in real life; they say this is somewhat loosely implemented in the mod. So you can actually push at higher speed for a couple of minutes after a depth charge run or its false? The only times i actually almost made it was when i pushed at flank speed exiting the destroyers circle and then slowing down 1 km away. I think they still picked me up with the sonar though afterwards while i was trying to get away at silent speed

As for bait destroyers in 41: i had a couple of encounters with escorts in late 40 off the coast of ireland with my IID. And it was laughable (too bad i only had 5 torps) , dove to 160mt -> depth charge run -> flank 15 seconds ->silent speed BYE BYE . it was too easy

I guess its the depth the real problem

Depth charge covering noise is not modeled except via an additional mod. Very basic WW2 sub hunting game omission but there it is.
But higher speeds can help regardless.
The shallow depth was what was your problem. Stiebler's mod (highly recommended) accurately reflects the problem asdic had attaining a sub in shallow water but even with it if you ARE detected, good luck.
If you ever want to add H.sie's and Stiebler's patches and need help setting them up, send me a pm.

Fifi · 12-12-20, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Depth charge covering noise is not modeled except via an additional mod. Very basic WW2 sub hunting omission but there it is.
But higher speeds can help regardless.
The shallow depth was what was your problem. Stiebler's mod (highly recommended) accurately reflects the problem asdic had attaining a sub in shallow water but even with it if you ARE detected, good luck.
If you ever want to add H.sie's and Stiebler's patches and need help setting them up, send me a pm.

Problem with Stiebler shallow water mod is it’s breaking other depth detection ...
That’s why we don’t activate in Onealex mod btw.

John Pancoast · 12-12-20, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifi

Problem with Stiebler shallow water mod is it’s breaking other depth detection ...
That’s why we don’t activate in Onealex mod btw.

Hmmm.....never noticed anything like that. Do you have details ?

Fifi · 12-12-20, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Hmmm.....never noticed anything like that. Do you have details ?

We have tested shallow mod, it’s working (kind of) in shallow waters but destroyers are loosing their nice detection when it comes up to deep depth...

John Pancoast · 12-12-20, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifi

We have tested shallow mod, it’s working (kind of) in shallow waters but destroyers are loosing their nice detection when it comes up to deep depth...

Depending on what depth your talking about that may be something that has been around since release.
Of course, there are many other reasons why an escort could lose detection too not the least of which is the "Lost contact time" setting in sim.cfg or the temp layers modeled in SH3 commander.

pippaman · 12-15-20, 03:37 AM

Thank you guys for the quick and precise feedback.

I may actually need more time under the sea to ''git gud''

Just starting know using manual targeting and while it's not working always out its still a blast.

FeatsOfStrength · 12-15-20, 11:54 AM

I had a destroyer chase me for hours long after the convoy and other destroyers had disappeared out of the atmosphere, it exhausted all of it's depth charges and continued just buzzing me in a figure of 8 pattern.

I tried the only thing I could think of to get rid of it, I went up to 18m depth, waited for the destroyer to pass over the top of me, quickly went to periscope depth and fired a single torpedo into it's turning arch and managed to destroy it.

12-12-20, 07:15 AM	#1
pippaman Nub Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 4 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Evading destroyers Gwx Hello i came back to SH3 after something like 10 years, and started playing with GWX. I'm not a veteran by any means but i had my fair share of hours commanding a uboat. I'm in february 1941 with a VIIIC and for the life of me i can't escape destroyers. I had 2 destroyers chasing me after a failed aircraft attack and i coulnd't shake them off. I Had 80 meters of depth under the keel. I tried silent running slowly away: nothing they continuously picked me up with sonar. Evading at flank speed during depth charging runs, i kept the stopwatch at 30second intervals of flank speed after their run to change course : nothing they picked me up with sonar Kept evading longer at flank speed: nothing Flank speed triyng to sneak behind the destroyers (crossing the T on their stern) maybe worked 1 time out of 20. Even if i manage to evade from them and put 1 or 2 km they've picked me up after somehow (at silent speed / 2kt) Even if i kept my stern or bow at them to minimize my silhouette didn't work. Tried resting on the bottom of the sea to no avail. On top of that silent running wouldn't have worked because i coulnd't keep the depth unless running at 4kt after some minor damage. Am i missing something? From what i know destroyers also had limited ammunitions, but from what i read GWX has like 3 times the normal amount so you can't even wait for the destroyers to run out (as from what i know was a ''tactic'') I actually waited them to run out: one did, the other kept depth charging me with the side launchers only. After 8 hours of ingame time i simply gave up. Also GWX manual says that around 60mt there's the critical depth for sonar due to the thermal layer and the diverging of the sound path: doesn't look like it. Is there simply no way to evade and thats it? Thank you and have a nice day

12-12-20, 09:15 AM	#3
ivanov.ruslan The Old Man Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Pleven,BG Posts: 1,577 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 0	Try the Stieblers Asdic shallow water from https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=217396, it may help a little Strange, i've been playing GWX for years, but i never suspected that the destroyers were so bait in 1941. It's also true that I've been playing since 1942 It has happened to me, but mainly in single missions in the shallow waters around the US east coast Last edited by ivanov.ruslan; 12-12-20 at 09:29 AM.

12-12-20, 10:41 AM	#4
Seth Buttercrump Watch Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 27 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	CTD woes I'm in a similar position- returning to SHIII and running GWX 3.0 Taking on destroyers IS possible, but there appears to be a caveat: My current patrol is feb 1945 and I have just retried a save position close to a convoy off the coast of East Anglia. I took out two of the escorts with homing torpedoes, hit another at point blank range, and just watched the 4th blow up through my periscope, having hit it with a stern torpedo from 350m, at which point the game froze and seconds later crashed to the desktop. This is the second time the exact same thing has happened! A George Russell moment if ever there was one __________________ Only 10 kinds of people understand binary: those who do, and those who don't.

12-12-20, 11:29 AM	#6
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 29,987 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard! pippaman! __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

12-12-20, 11:02 AM	#5
pippaman Nub Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 4 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Thank you for your feedback guys! I got really frustrated but i feared it was the shallow depth and the fact that it probably was like this in reality.... About the stiebler patch i wanted to try h.sie and then stiebler but its the 4th time i restart a career due to messing with various mods so i wanted to wait for another career before starting again. One more thing: i read through the GWX manual and they talk about that a depth charge run would mess heavily with the hydrophones for up to 10 minutes in real life; they say this is somewhat loosely implemented in the mod. So you can actually push at higher speed for a couple of minutes after a depth charge run or its false? The only times i actually almost made it was when i pushed at flank speed exiting the destroyers circle and then slowing down 1 km away. I think they still picked me up with the sonar though afterwards while i was trying to get away at silent speed As for bait destroyers in 41: i had a couple of encounters with escorts in late 40 off the coast of ireland with my IID. And it was laughable (too bad i only had 5 torps) , dove to 160mt -> depth charge run -> flank 15 seconds ->silent speed BYE BYE . it was too easy I guess its the depth the real problem

12-15-20, 03:37 AM	#12
pippaman Nub Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 4 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Thank you guys for the quick and precise feedback. I may actually need more time under the sea to ''git gud'' Just starting know using manual targeting and while it's not working always out its still a blast.

12-15-20, 11:54 AM	#13
FeatsOfStrength Gunner Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 100 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	I had a destroyer chase me for hours long after the convoy and other destroyers had disappeared out of the atmosphere, it exhausted all of it's depth charges and continued just buzzing me in a figure of 8 pattern. I tried the only thing I could think of to get rid of it, I went up to 18m depth, waited for the destroyer to pass over the top of me, quickly went to periscope depth and fired a single torpedo into it's turning arch and managed to destroy it.