Any snake expert here?

Skybird · 11-20-19, 03:32 PM

I recently saw a documentary where it was said the common european adder/viper (German: Kreuzotter) has a venom 2-3 times as toxic as that of diamond rattlesnakes, and that bites by these vipers are usually being survived and are less dangerous than that of a rattlesnake only becasue the european viper has a signficantly smaller ammount of poison it could inject, than a rattlesnake has and would inject in serious biting (they can vary the ammount of venom injected, even bite with their poison fangs without spending any venom at all if they do not want to, the production takes much time and sometimes the snake just wants to intimidate an enemy, so it spends only some of its precious venom. The full dose gets injected mostly when they indeed are after prey to eat, or fight for their life).

I checked this in the internet and yes, on some German pages and in German Wikipedia they also said the same: the European viper has the far more potent venom, but only carries a much smaller ammount of it and thus injects far less venom compared to a diamond rattlesnake.

However, when I read on some English sites and on English Wikipedia, they write exactly the opposite: that the European viper's venom is significantly less potent than that of a rattlesnake, and that it takes huge ammounts of that venom (of the European addeer) to kill animals of this and that kind, or a human . According to them, their venom is less potent, and is carried in smaller quantity.

Has anyone a well founded final word on this so to solve the contradiction?

Else, it is a very fascinating snake, and the most widely spread snake on the planet, with some unique characteristics. It can flatten its body to maximise the ammount of body surface it can direct at the sun to optimize warmth absorption, and it is the only snake that even lives north of the polar circle (!!! I was stunned by that!). As a young boy I once observed two of these snakes in the Bavarian wild at close range. Thats almost half a century ago, however. I stood still, and no, I got not bitten at all.

When I think "snakes", I immediately think of either European adders, or grass snake/water snake/ringed snake (are these really three names for the same snake, or three different snakes?I mean "Ringelnatter"), to me they both are kind of protoype examples of poisonous vipers and (mostly) unpoisonous colubrids. Last year I met several grass snakes, one a very long one that even crawled about my legs while I sat absolutely still. It was a very friendly snake, I thought, and in no haste.

Reece · 11-20-19, 07:49 PM

Yes, that's definitely a snake sky!

MaDef · 11-20-19, 10:59 PM

You should probably consult a herpetologist for specific information, Having grown up around rattlesnakes, I do know that the older the snake, the more potent the venom. And it is said they can control the amount of the venom they use.

As a point of interest, adult ground squirrels are immune to rattlesnake venom.

Skybird · 11-21-19, 06:45 AM

Too bad that MaDef said squirrels are immune to snake poison, else I would have asked Eichhörnchen if he could let himself bitten by both and then tell us of the difference in both experiences.

STEED · 11-21-19, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reece

Yes, that's definitely a snake sky!

Jimbuna · 11-21-19, 09:46 AM

Dealt with quite a few over the years but they were mostly the two legged variety.

Armistead · 11-23-19, 03:57 PM

yea, in that old house I was rummaging through, I lifted a mattress and there were more than a few copperheads rolled up together...needless to say I didn't look under that bed...yet

Eichhörnchen · 11-23-19, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Too bad that MaDef said squirrels are immune to snake poison, else I would have asked Eichhörnchen if he could let himself bitten by both and then tell us of the difference in both experiences.

Thanks but no thanks

11-20-19, 03:32 PM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Any snake expert here? I recently saw a documentary where it was said the common european adder/viper (German: Kreuzotter) has a venom 2-3 times as toxic as that of diamond rattlesnakes, and that bites by these vipers are usually being survived and are less dangerous than that of a rattlesnake only becasue the european viper has a signficantly smaller ammount of poison it could inject, than a rattlesnake has and would inject in serious biting (they can vary the ammount of venom injected, even bite with their poison fangs without spending any venom at all if they do not want to, the production takes much time and sometimes the snake just wants to intimidate an enemy, so it spends only some of its precious venom. The full dose gets injected mostly when they indeed are after prey to eat, or fight for their life). I checked this in the internet and yes, on some German pages and in German Wikipedia they also said the same: the European viper has the far more potent venom, but only carries a much smaller ammount of it and thus injects far less venom compared to a diamond rattlesnake. However, when I read on some English sites and on English Wikipedia, they write exactly the opposite: that the European viper's venom is significantly less potent than that of a rattlesnake, and that it takes huge ammounts of that venom (of the European addeer) to kill animals of this and that kind, or a human . According to them, their venom is less potent, and is carried in smaller quantity. Has anyone a well founded final word on this so to solve the contradiction? Else, it is a very fascinating snake, and the most widely spread snake on the planet, with some unique characteristics. It can flatten its body to maximise the ammount of body surface it can direct at the sun to optimize warmth absorption, and it is the only snake that even lives north of the polar circle (!!! I was stunned by that!). As a young boy I once observed two of these snakes in the Bavarian wild at close range. Thats almost half a century ago, however. I stood still, and no, I got not bitten at all. When I think "snakes", I immediately think of either European adders, or grass snake/water snake/ringed snake (are these really three names for the same snake, or three different snakes?I mean "Ringelnatter"), to me they both are kind of protoype examples of poisonous vipers and (mostly) unpoisonous colubrids. Last year I met several grass snakes, one a very long one that even crawled about my legs while I sat absolutely still. It was a very friendly snake, I thought, and in no haste. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 11-20-19 at 03:50 PM.

11-20-19, 07:49 PM	#2
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,688 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Yes, that's definitely a snake sky! __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

11-21-19, 06:45 AM	#4
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Too bad that MaDef said squirrels are immune to snake poison, else I would have asked Eichhörnchen if he could let himself bitten by both and then tell us of the difference in both experiences. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-21-19, 09:46 AM	#6
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,467 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Dealt with quite a few over the years but they were mostly the two legged variety. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-23-19, 03:57 PM	#7
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	yea, in that old house I was rummaging through, I lifted a mattress and there were more than a few copperheads rolled up together...needless to say I didn't look under that bed...yet __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

11-20-19, 10:59 PM	#3
MaDef Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,194 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	You should probably consult a herpetologist for specific information, Having grown up around rattlesnakes, I do know that the older the snake, the more potent the venom. And it is said they can control the amount of the venom they use. As a point of interest, adult ground squirrels are immune to rattlesnake venom.