Few questions from a new player.

[dashyr]

Played around with other sims like the Silent Hunter Series. Figured moving to a game about modern subs would remove part of the calculations you have to make. Gotten tired of all of it. xD


Seems like I'm somewhat right as this game seems to be more about collecting data overtime then cross-check with the TMA to find a solution than having pin-point accurate one from the get-go.


Hell, I even managed to sink the ship (Mission target of a mission I use as "tutorial".) TWICE... Thing is.. I"m really uncertain about what I did right or wrong during my attempts. I'd really need a step-by-step tutorial to follow from "search" to "shoot" so I can see how a typical encounter rolls out. YouTube let's plays are nice but hardly go in depth with the explanations. Or they use technical terms I cannot understand.


Any recommended tutorials? And, while I'm here, any mods considered essential?

[p7p8]

In my opinion FPSchazly's tutorials are very good for new player, you should to watch them.
Next positions are: BLUE or better RED BOOK (written for Sub Command)

Watching videos from games especially MP will teach you how to play - what is important what is not.

Most MP games is played with Autocrew TMA so if you want to know how it works you have to search for "manual TMA" sentence

As i know DW haven't tutorials for completly new players - who launch game first time.

[dashyr]

Originally Posted by p7p8

In my opinion FPSchazly's tutorials are very good for new player, you should to watch them.
Next positions are: BLUE or better RED BOOK (written for Sub Command)

Watching videos from games especially MP will teach you how to play - what is important what is not.

Most MP games is played with Autocrew TMA so if you want to know how it works you have to search for "manual TMA" sentence

As i know DW haven't tutorials for completly new players - who launch game first time.

Wait a minute. MP? People still play this multiplayer?


Also somebody recommended the Reinforce Alert mod. Is it really good?

[p7p8]

MP games are every Friday & Saturday and somethimes during week. All with Reinforce Alert mod.

Is it good? It depends because vanilla campaign and scenarios are not compatible with RA and may works with errors (usually in missions where player goal is" keep not detected status, player is detected in first seconds of game)

RA extends many aspects of game so for really new player it could be a problem:
- much more things to learn,
-... but lacking of single player missions,
-... and vanilla campaign is not compatible

Reinforce Alert is very attractive option for experienced and MP gamers
- it fixes many vanilla bugs
- extends many game mechanics like weapon control
- adds many new controllable platforms (around 50)
- RA is still developed
- you can easily find small but active MP community with large base of MP scenarios

[dashyr]

Originally Posted by p7p8

MP games are every Friday & Saturday and somethimes during week. All with Reinforce Alert mod.

Is it good? It depends because vanilla campaign and scenarios are not compatible with RA and may works with errors (usually in missions where player goal is" keep not detected status, player is detected in first seconds of game)

RA extends many aspects of game so for really new player it could be a problem:
- much more things to learn,
-... but lacking of single player missions,
-... and vanilla campaign is not compatible

Reinforce Alert is very attractive option for experienced and MP gamers
- it fixes many vanilla bugs
- extends many game mechanics like weapon control
- adds many new controllable platforms (around 50)
- RA is still developed
- you can easily find small but active MP community with large base of MP scenarios

Well... I don't know why but the one I installed comes with a bunch of missions. Campaigns included. Does that mean they are meant to be MP? It's kinda confusing.

[p7p8]

RA includes rebuilded campaigns and missions from Sub Command and 688 H/K but sometimes some bugs (hard to detect during redesigning) appears and you can stuck (as me in Sub Command campaign link)
Of course with little luck it won't happen

Also very good Red Storm Rising campaign (by Bill Nichols) was rebuilded for RA and some of very well knowed single missions.

Problem is: vanilla campaign after RA is almost completly unplayable and old missions (from RSR, SC, 688I) were designed only for submarines. So if you wanna play Perry, P-3 Orion or MH-60R you have very limited choice.

For me RA is best Dangerous Waters mod and i recommend it. But if you wanna play DW vanilla campaign, you should wait with RA installation. Instead you can install LwAmi 3.11.

After gaining some experience, best choice is to change vanilla/Lwami to RA because changiing RA to vanilla/LwAmi haven't sense - but it's only my personal opinion

Another option is to learn basics in RA and playing with MP sessions. Many players are very experienced and they should help you to understand how to play.
In this case, you can start from "deep water" of DW gaming. MP sessions require a completely "fresh" view of playing DW:
- cooperation with other players
- cooperation with MPA, surface ships,
- being fast and deadly
- hiding in strings of acoustic signatures civilian ships (instead hiding by lowering speed)
- being part in bigger tactical plan etc.

[dashyr]

Originally Posted by p7p8

RA includes rebuilded campaigns and missions from Sub Command and 688 H/K but sometimes some bugs (hard to detect during redesigning) appears and you can stuck (as me in Sub Command campaign link)
Of course with little luck it won't happen

Also very good Red Storm Rising campaign (by Bill Nichols) was rebuilded for RA and some of very well knowed single missions.

Problem is: vanilla campaign after RA is almost completly unplayable and old missions (from RSR, SC, 688I) were designed only for submarines. So if you wanna play Perry, P-3 Orion or MH-60R you have very limited choice.

For me RA is best Dangerous Waters mod and i recommend it. But if you wanna play DW vanilla campaign, you should wait with RA installation. Instead you can install LwAmi 3.11.

After gaining some experience, best choice is to change vanilla/Lwami to RA because changiing RA to vanilla/LwAmi haven't sense - but it's only my personal opinion

Another option is to learn basics in RA and playing with MP sessions. Many players are very experienced and they should help you to understand how to play.
In this case, you can start from "deep water" of DW gaming. MP sessions require a completely "fresh" view of playing DW:
- cooperation with other players
- cooperation with MPA, surface ships,
- being fast and deadly
- hiding in strings of acoustic signatures civilian ships (instead hiding by lowering speed)
- being part in bigger tactical plan etc.

Well. Either my aiming is crap or torpedoes legit love me.


Tried to sink that cargo again (In Kilo Demo wich I use to train.). Fired a torpedo. Not sure wich kind. (Still learning about the different weapons.). SOMEHOW... The torpedo went off course and sank one of the escorts. Guess it was between me and my target and my torpedo tracked him instead. Of course all the cargos went crazy with course changes. But, whatever, shot 2 more torpedoes before my target stray too much from my earlier TMA solution. Appearantly that worked because I sank it too.



Ending Screen: https://imgur.com/a/byNZ5y6



I'd say that so far I can get bearing / speed right. My problem is with range. I find the stadimeter to be somewhat finicky compared to Silent Hunter but that's just me. I mean... I could use the radar but I might as well stick a christmas tree on top of my submarine if im going to do that.


Any tips?

[p7p8]

Originally Posted by dashyr

Any tips?

Very simple:
read weapon manual (RA_Weapon_Info_rev39.PDF) because RA changes some weapon and extends control over weapon.

Originally Posted by dashyr

(Still learning about the different weapons.)

How you do this without reading weapon manual?

If you wanna play RA, weapon manual is not "recommended" - it's mandatory for playing.

[dashyr]

Originally Posted by p7p8

Very simple:
read weapon manual (RA_Weapon_Info_rev39.PDF) because RA changes some weapon and extends control over weapon.


How you do this without reading weapon manual?

If you wanna play RA, weapon manual is not "recommended" - it's mandatory for playing.

I'll go get some reading done then. And about the range. Any pointers?


I know how a stadimeter works but im having flashbacks from SH4 where it used to be unreliable. Range seems to always be way off. Does this game has a similar issue than SH4 used to have or is it just me using it wrong?


And on how I did this without reading the manual.. Absolutely no idea. xD

[p7p8]

Stadimeter was good during WWII for attacking surface ships but today naval warfare rely on different sources of gaining information.

Today "short" range for torpedoes is 8-10 nmi (over 15 km). It shows that stadimeter haven't primary role in DW

Many ships and maritime patrol airctafts have "mast detectors" - they can automatically detect your periscope so using Stadimeter is not recommended. Personally i never used it :P
Visual detection for gaining range is recommended when you have laser range device (some modern subs have it)

Your best friend is TMA and passive detection via low fraquency sonars like Towed Array. You can detect and after some time find solution to attack even on very large distances - far beyond radar (limited by radio horizont)

...before my target stray too much from my earlier TMA solution

It means your solution wasn't good enough for engaging.
You should to predict where target will go. It's hard task when you fail your first attack because enemy probably change course and speed.
If target is not too far (<10-12 nmi) you can ping active sonar when your torpedoes are close to solution.

For attacking submarines using periscope is not very smart. Not only because submarines are usually under water but also because your sonars works best not very close to surface (waves generates some noise)

My advices:

1. Turn Autocrew for TMA (its not cheating because autocrew gives you solutions with error). It allow you to focus on more important things than resolving puzzles of TMA. It's not a shame: 99% players in MP use autocrew ON

2. Forget about Silent hunter practices, like:
- using visual obserwations for making solution on target
- hearing contacts for predicting range/type/etc
- staying at periscope depth
- going to maximum depth in case of danger
- trusting for "termocline" will hide you
- using radar
- being "perfectionist" for working on solution
- relaying only on yourself for building battle picture
All of this above are "bad habits" silent hunter players in DW

3. Watch some experienced players (like me ) RA gampelays for understanding how to engage with or without autocrew TMA

4. You don't have to read all weapon guide but only sections for your current loadout.

[dashyr]

Originally Posted by p7p8

Stadimeter was good during WWII for attacking surface ships but today naval warfare rely on different sources of gaining information.

Today "short" range for torpedoes is 8-10 nmi (over 15 km). It shows that stadimeter haven't primary role in DW

Many ships and maritime patrol airctafts have "mast detectors" - they can automatically detect your periscope so using Stadimeter is not recommended. Personally i never used it :P
Visual detection for gaining range is recommended when you have laser range device (some modern subs have it)

Your best friend is TMA and passive detection via low fraquency sonars like Towed Array. You can detect and after some time find solution to attack even on very large distances - far beyond radar (limited by radio horizont)



It means your solution wasn't good enough for engaging.
You should to predict where target will go. It's hard task when you fail your first attack because enemy probably change course and speed.
If target is not too far (<10-12 nmi) you can ping active sonar when your torpedoes are close to solution.

For attacking submarines using periscope is not very smart. Not only because submarines are usually under water but also because your sonars works best not very close to surface (waves generates some noise)

My advices:

1. Turn Autocrew for TMA (its not cheating because autocrew gives you solutions with error). It allow you to focus on more important things than resolving puzzles of TMA. It's not a shame: 99% players in MP use autocrew ON

2. Forget about Silent hunter practices, like:
- using visual obserwations for making solution on target
- hearing contacts for predicting range/type/etc
- staying at periscope depth
- going to maximum depth in case of danger
- trusting for "termocline" will hide you
- using radar
- being "perfectionist" for working on solution
- relaying only on yourself for building battle picture
All of this above are "bad habits" silent hunter players in DW

3. Watch some experienced players (like me ) RA gampelays for understanding how to engage with or without autocrew TMA

4. You don't have to read all weapon guide but only sections for your current loadout.

I read some of the red book. I used a trick in it that lets me know the enemy's minimum range using the tma. It's not precise, but its at least something.


Also, my stadimeter "estimates" are not "that" off providing I use multiple readings and make an average approximation of it's course and range. Wich is often enough with most torpedoes that have a minimum of tracking. I try to be sneaky about it. Rising my periscope. Taking a pic then hide it again. So far it has not been a problem if used sparringly. I cannot remove the risk but I sure can minimize it.



This time I used said trick, combined with stadimeter to have a good picture of the range and course of the convoy. I shot a torpedo at each of them hoping to cripple and disable them. Second volley will take care of the survivors. Of course I calculated the second volley while the first was on it's way. VERY approximate but it did work. I then quickly dived under the thermal layer and headead straight toward the escort ship. Accelerated. Cut engines and order a 90' turn. Let the momentum carry me southwest. Making a solution on the ship in case I need to / keeps me busy too during those moves. Didn't had to sink him... managed to lose him.

[p7p8]

Originally Posted by dashyr

I then quickly dived under the thermal layer and headead straight toward the escort ship. Accelerated. Cut engines and order a 90' turn.

LOL - its completly wrong tactic:
- for active homing torpedoes "cutting out engines" haven't matter.
- thing which have matter is your cross section from torpedo point of view. Instead minimalize - you maximize it
- torpedoes can search sector 1 nmi to left/right ftom their general course so staying in one place is not wise.
- most of ASW warships have onboard ASW helo. After attack you should "clear datum" because helo can kill you very easily when knows your position.

Stop playing DW like SH

Btw if you know in mission aren't enemy submarines you can use active sonar - not all warships have "active intercept" device.

[p7p8]

About Red Book

It's still good guide but it was made for Sub Command where some aspects of game works little different than in DW. DW have better game engine physic. For example TA does NOT follow directly own submarine path, so crossing contact bearing from TA + another passive sonar won't give you CLEAR picture like in Sub Command.
Also RA haven't detection limitation by range but level of noise. In vanilla DW/SC all above some range - no matter how loud was, you had'nt chance to detect it.
Currently in RA you can detect cavitation of submarine from over 20-30 nmi.

All advices in RED book based on assumption: you can detect enemy first and have some time before enemy will detect you. (Seawolf vs Akula II)

In RA Akula II have also very sensitive TA and assumption above is wrong

[dashyr]

Originally Posted by p7p8

About Red Book

It's still good guide but it was made for Sub Command where some aspects of game works little different than in DW. DW have better game engine physic. For example TA does NOT follow directly own submarine path, so crossing contact bearing from TA + another passive sonar won't give you CLEAR picture like in Sub Command.
Also RA haven't detection limitation by range but level of noise. In vanilla DW/SC all above some range - no matter how loud was, you had'nt chance to detect it.
Currently in RA you can detect cavitation of submarine from over 20-30 nmi.

All advices in RED book based on assumption: you can detect enemy first and have some time before enemy will detect you. (Seawolf vs Akula II)

In RA Akula II have also very sensitive TA and assumption above is wrong

I finally did it. Using a tactic from the redbook I managed to have an estimation with a margin of error of less than 200 yards. Enough for the torpedo I was using. The only time I ever raised my periscope was to confirm it was my target before doing all the launch preparations. I didnt raised ESM mast. I did it with a single sensor by tracking my target over time. Going the opposite course than it. So lines intersect exactly at it's current range with an acceptable margin for error. Giving me a quite decent solution. So yeah. ONLY reason for me to use the periscope anymore is to visually identify my target.


Now I have to learn how to target a submarine!


Thanks for the pointers.

[dashyr]

Yeah but they got me this time. Gotta learn how to evade. Probably got lucky earlier.