Sub vs Sub warfare is ruthless

RogueUboot · 06-05-17, 09:44 PM

Lost my boat in my first mission.

Edit:I'll have to git gud i guess.

daft · 06-06-17, 05:20 AM

Yeah, I've died and restarted about a dozen timea now. You really need ti pich your spot, and once torps are in the water, get the hell out of Dodge!

Onkel Neal · 06-06-17, 05:38 AM

I think you will find there is a LOT of tactical stuff that can help;

- for real, you have to avoid closing range on some enemies, they will hit you with active.

- use the layers

- try to get in the baffles, it does seem to be modeled in the AI

-if you are in less than 900 ft of water, you will struggle; you need room to move vertically to avoid incoming torps

- knuckles, noisemakers, and MOSS decoys are your friend when under attack

daft · 06-06-17, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I think you will find there is a LOT of tactical stuff that can help;

- for real, you have to avoid closing range on some enemies, they will hit you with active.

- use the layers

- try to get in the baffles, it does seem to be modeled in the AI

-if you are in less than 900 ft of water, you will struggle; you need room to move vertically to avoid incoming torps

- knuckles, noisemakers, and MOSS decoys are your friend when under attack

Yeah, the SSK's are nasty. Currently trying to manoeuvre into the baffles of a Whiskey. Problem is, I detected him close in and he's got company in the form of a Victor II... Nail biting stuff.

Onkel Neal · 06-06-17, 07:55 AM

The AI capabilities and AI tactics is where I agree this game is a simulation.

daft · 06-06-17, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

The AI capabilities and AI tactics is where I agree this game is a simulation.

I'll second that!

xXNightEagleXx · 06-06-17, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

The AI capabilities and AI tactics is where I agree this game is a simulation.

I could not say it better

keltos01 · 06-06-17, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

The AI capabilities and AI tactics is where I agree this game is a simulation.

I concur !

daft · 06-06-17, 10:06 AM

Really respect the diesels! Getting into a knife fight with then is a recipe for disaster. I'm starting to get to grips with at least some of the tactics in the sub vs sub engagements. You really need to be mindful of what they do and if they've detected you. Especially after launching, so as Neal said, getting into the right firing position is really crucial.

The Bandit · 06-07-17, 01:40 AM

Best piece of advice I can give from the hours I put in on CW today, be smart with your speed on the map and fight on your own terms. If an enemy (especially a diesel) catches you coming off sprint @ 26 knots, you probably have torps head your way a soon as combat starts, you just don't know it yet.

Conversely, I had very good luck against two Foxtrots when I lined up an ambush and entered combat @ 5 knots. They seemed to be snorkeling at 8 knot while running at shallow depth and making a fair bit of noise. Second one was still a little dicey though because the surprise was gone.

Speaking of surprises, I savaged a group of three Novembers that were making their way through the Norwegian Sea at high speed. First one was still sprinting @ 26 knots, didn't hear the torps until it was too late. Second one managed to dodge my first spread, and then my second. Comically, the second scared him out of the water and he tried to get away on the surface (not sure of the Mk 37 will still hit them if they are surfaced or not) until he met a Mk 16.

Saved the best for last though, the third November was farther off to the North and after hearing his friends die, no doubt knew I was in the area. I picked him up kind of close (inside 3500 yards) creeping slow and heading right for me. Foolishly I waited to see the whites of his eyes before engaging. I worry too much that the Mk 37 is too slow against Nuke boats so I try to keep the ranges as tight as possible. In this case it backfired tremendously as the November lit me up on active and nearly put a fish through my nose. I'm not entirely sure what happened next, as I did snap-shot off a Mk 37 his way, while also firing off a noisemaker and pulling a 360 degree turn. While his fish was initially locked on, the noisemaker and knuckles managed to shake it off of me and I'm about 90% sure that it went on to pull a Konavolov. I may be wrong, as I did have that snap-shot fish that I lost track of, however I watched that SET-65 head back his way pinging quick for acquisition.

Either way, this is one hell of a game!

1010101001 · 06-07-17, 03:24 AM

I did not think it would be so bad initially until my 3rd mission.

I had attacked a small replenishment force in an LA submarine as ordered with both of the Grisha frigate escorts getting torpedoed and the Don being obliterated by a harpoon. Unfortunately for me I had been stupid and lost contact with an Alfa submarine. 5 minutes later and its within 3000 yards

. Its safe to say I learnt a lot about torpedo evasion and MOSS decoys particularly how they destroy the tube if launched at high speeds. Meanwhile I try launching several torpedoes at the Alfa with most missing due to the underwater acrobatics I was performing. I finally manage to spot the Alfa using active sonar and find him sitting motionless at 1100ft. The trouble at this point was that 3 enemy torpedoes were following me and a TU95 bear was overhead dropping torpedoes and sonobuoys, After another few minutes of evasion (knuckle forming 101) I fired a torpedo at 400 yards and the Alfa returned the favour, unluckily for him my torpedo hit first and I only had to spend the next 10 minutes shaking off the bear.

I honestly did not think sub v sub combat could be so crazy difficult but so fun and engaging at the same time.

Foxendown · 06-07-17, 05:09 PM

The first two single missions:

First mission: fired a decoy, enemy sub fell for it and launched a torpedo at it, moving towards it at the same time. I had gone deep and quiet but before I could move in for the kill he ran into his own torpedo.

Second mission: ran the decoy gambit again, manoeuvred into ambush position deep and silent, sank enemy sub with first torpedo. Second enemy ran bows first into the bottom and was eventually hit by my second torpedo after it circled round him for about 5 minutes. In the meantime the enemy sub dropped decoys which sank directly below it's stern (which was sticking up at an angle)!

Above an aircraft dropped a single sonobuoy and then flew round in circles. I was expecting a pattern.

So I hope these are a deliberate easy start and it gets tougher (and the AI smarter) from here on in. Maybe it's the normal difficulty level, will try elite tomorrow.

Lanzfeld · 06-07-17, 09:52 PM

As we all know....the enemy subs ping away all the time.

It still takes me quite awhile to get a good fix on the even will all these pings and me at 5 knots.

So I go active for 2 whole pings. I get a missle launch from a sub miles and miles away. Balls accurate. Pinpoint.

So we need some "rebalancing" here with respect to pinger position give away.

Not same for player and AI. Uggggggg.

I want to start the campaign but I think I need a patch first.

daft · 06-08-17, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanzfeld

As we all know....the enemy subs ping away all the time.

It still takes me quite awhile to get a good fix on the even will all these pings and me at 5 knots.

So I go active for 2 whole pings. I get a missle launch from a sub miles and miles away. Balls accurate. Pinpoint.

So we need some "rebalancing" here with respect to pinger position give away.

Not same for player and AI. Uggggggg.

I want to start the campaign but I think I need a patch first.

I usually just send a torp down the ping bearing and enabling it as soon as possible and then go straight into evasion mode, cutting the wire when I see the active ping icon up in the right corner. That probably means an attack is imminent.

Deepmoc · 06-08-17, 07:56 AM

My fight against diesels was very easy to this point.
Never i was in real danger

Yesterday i had several encounters with Foxtrots, some juliets an romeos..
A little more danherous are the tangos.. they seems to be have an better sonar.

My tactic is.. getting slower from the 26knots martch speed tu 5 knots down.. then seek for the first contacts.. When i know their course.. then i closing in to the first neares Sub.
my Bow is then directly orientated to the opposing Sub Position.. to make an possibliest smallest Sonar Echo. Then i try to pass in thier stern region.. in thier baffles . The Most time showing my smallest Silhouette. TZhen when in the baffles i rise up to 500 feet an launch my torp. Motly they have time to make a initial turn unitil they will be hit..Sometimes i steer the Torpedo directly because the mk48s try to avoid the decoy an then i have to redirect it.

PLEASE KNOW that guidance of the Torsps is only possible in an 60 degree cone at the Bow.. an not longer then 5000yards ! Then you will loose the Wire.

When the Dieses detects me,, what rarely occur, then they launches its Tops ro high oiver me,, an the Torps passing by over me in active state. I launches NO countermesarues ankeep at 5 knots at this time.. 4 or 6 torps missing me in this time and one time i have expierenced that one diesel sub has sunk the another accidentaly :-D

Then with SSNs the same nearly.. One Time i got in real danger,, an had to use a fast turn fight with decoys an depth change..

This was with 2 sierras.

Greets..

06-05-17, 09:44 PM	#1
RogueUboot Swabbie Join Date: May 2017 Location: French Canada Posts: 12 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Sub vs Sub warfare is ruthless Lost my boat in my first mission. Edit:I'll have to git gud i guess. __________________ Werner:[slowly suffocating in 290m depth] 'To be fearless and proud and alone. To need no one, just sacrifice. All for the Fatherland.' Oh God, all just empty words. ----------------------------------------------- Last edited by RogueUboot; 06-05-17 at 09:58 PM.

06-06-17, 05:20 AM	#2
daft Captain Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 493 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Yeah, I've died and restarted about a dozen timea now. You really need ti pich your spot, and once torps are in the water, get the hell out of Dodge! __________________ And God said: \"Let there be Narrowband!\"

06-06-17, 05:38 AM	#3
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,383 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	I think you will find there is a LOT of tactical stuff that can help; - for real, you have to avoid closing range on some enemies, they will hit you with active. - use the layers - try to get in the baffles, it does seem to be modeled in the AI -if you are in less than 900 ft of water, you will struggle; you need room to move vertically to avoid incoming torps - knuckles, noisemakers, and MOSS decoys are your friend when under attack __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

06-06-17, 07:55 AM	#5
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,383 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	The AI capabilities and AI tactics is where I agree this game is a simulation. __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

06-06-17, 10:06 AM	#9
daft Captain Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 493 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Really respect the diesels! Getting into a knife fight with then is a recipe for disaster. I'm starting to get to grips with at least some of the tactics in the sub vs sub engagements. You really need to be mindful of what they do and if they've detected you. Especially after launching, so as Neal said, getting into the right firing position is really crucial. __________________ And God said: \"Let there be Narrowband!\"

06-07-17, 01:40 AM	#10
The Bandit Sonar Guy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 395 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 1	Best piece of advice I can give from the hours I put in on CW today, be smart with your speed on the map and fight on your own terms. If an enemy (especially a diesel) catches you coming off sprint @ 26 knots, you probably have torps head your way a soon as combat starts, you just don't know it yet. Conversely, I had very good luck against two Foxtrots when I lined up an ambush and entered combat @ 5 knots. They seemed to be snorkeling at 8 knot while running at shallow depth and making a fair bit of noise. Second one was still a little dicey though because the surprise was gone. Speaking of surprises, I savaged a group of three Novembers that were making their way through the Norwegian Sea at high speed. First one was still sprinting @ 26 knots, didn't hear the torps until it was too late. Second one managed to dodge my first spread, and then my second. Comically, the second scared him out of the water and he tried to get away on the surface (not sure of the Mk 37 will still hit them if they are surfaced or not) until he met a Mk 16. Saved the best for last though, the third November was farther off to the North and after hearing his friends die, no doubt knew I was in the area. I picked him up kind of close (inside 3500 yards) creeping slow and heading right for me. Foolishly I waited to see the whites of his eyes before engaging. I worry too much that the Mk 37 is too slow against Nuke boats so I try to keep the ranges as tight as possible. In this case it backfired tremendously as the November lit me up on active and nearly put a fish through my nose. I'm not entirely sure what happened next, as I did snap-shot off a Mk 37 his way, while also firing off a noisemaker and pulling a 360 degree turn. While his fish was initially locked on, the noisemaker and knuckles managed to shake it off of me and I'm about 90% sure that it went on to pull a Konavolov. I may be wrong, as I did have that snap-shot fish that I lost track of, however I watched that SET-65 head back his way pinging quick for acquisition. Either way, this is one hell of a game! __________________

06-07-17, 03:24 AM	#11
1010101001 Nub Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 2 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I did not think it would be so bad initially until my 3rd mission. I had attacked a small replenishment force in an LA submarine as ordered with both of the Grisha frigate escorts getting torpedoed and the Don being obliterated by a harpoon. Unfortunately for me I had been stupid and lost contact with an Alfa submarine. 5 minutes later and its within 3000 yards . Its safe to say I learnt a lot about torpedo evasion and MOSS decoys particularly how they destroy the tube if launched at high speeds. Meanwhile I try launching several torpedoes at the Alfa with most missing due to the underwater acrobatics I was performing. I finally manage to spot the Alfa using active sonar and find him sitting motionless at 1100ft. The trouble at this point was that 3 enemy torpedoes were following me and a TU95 bear was overhead dropping torpedoes and sonobuoys, After another few minutes of evasion (knuckle forming 101) I fired a torpedo at 400 yards and the Alfa returned the favour, unluckily for him my torpedo hit first and I only had to spend the next 10 minutes shaking off the bear. I honestly did not think sub v sub combat could be so crazy difficult but so fun and engaging at the same time.

06-07-17, 05:09 PM	#12
Foxendown Bosun Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 68 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 0	The first two single missions: First mission: fired a decoy, enemy sub fell for it and launched a torpedo at it, moving towards it at the same time. I had gone deep and quiet but before I could move in for the kill he ran into his own torpedo. Second mission: ran the decoy gambit again, manoeuvred into ambush position deep and silent, sank enemy sub with first torpedo. Second enemy ran bows first into the bottom and was eventually hit by my second torpedo after it circled round him for about 5 minutes. In the meantime the enemy sub dropped decoys which sank directly below it's stern (which was sticking up at an angle)! Above an aircraft dropped a single sonobuoy and then flew round in circles. I was expecting a pattern. So I hope these are a deliberate easy start and it gets tougher (and the AI smarter) from here on in. Maybe it's the normal difficulty level, will try elite tomorrow.

06-07-17, 09:52 PM	#13
Lanzfeld Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Tripoli, PA Posts: 994 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	As we all know....the enemy subs ping away all the time. It still takes me quite awhile to get a good fix on the even will all these pings and me at 5 knots. So I go active for 2 whole pings. I get a missle launch from a sub miles and miles away. Balls accurate. Pinpoint. So we need some "rebalancing" here with respect to pinger position give away. Not same for player and AI. Uggggggg. I want to start the campaign but I think I need a patch first.

06-08-17, 07:56 AM	#15
Deepmoc Sailor man Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: nordhessen Posts: 43 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	My fight against diesels was very easy to this point. Never i was in real danger Yesterday i had several encounters with Foxtrots, some juliets an romeos.. A little more danherous are the tangos.. they seems to be have an better sonar. My tactic is.. getting slower from the 26knots martch speed tu 5 knots down.. then seek for the first contacts.. When i know their course.. then i closing in to the first neares Sub. my Bow is then directly orientated to the opposing Sub Position.. to make an possibliest smallest Sonar Echo. Then i try to pass in thier stern region.. in thier baffles . The Most time showing my smallest Silhouette. TZhen when in the baffles i rise up to 500 feet an launch my torp. Motly they have time to make a initial turn unitil they will be hit..Sometimes i steer the Torpedo directly because the mk48s try to avoid the decoy an then i have to redirect it. PLEASE KNOW that guidance of the Torsps is only possible in an 60 degree cone at the Bow.. an not longer then 5000yards ! Then you will loose the Wire. When the Dieses detects me,, what rarely occur, then they launches its Tops ro high oiver me,, an the Torps passing by over me in active state. I launches NO countermesarues ankeep at 5 knots at this time.. 4 or 6 torps missing me in this time and one time i have expierenced that one diesel sub has sunk the another accidentaly :-D Then with SSNs the same nearly.. One Time i got in real danger,, an had to use a fast turn fight with decoys an depth change.. This was with 2 sierras. Greets..