The Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners

11-13-16, 12:09 AM

Interesting article:

Quote:

"In the Dutch service we look at the individual," says Van der Spoel [deputy governor of Norgerhaven, a high-security prison]. "If somebody has a drug problem we treat their addiction, if they are aggressive we provide anger management, if they have got money problems we give them debt counselling. So we try to remove whatever it was that caused the crime. The inmate himself or herself must be willing to change but our method has been very effective. Over the last 10 years, our work has improved more and more." He adds that some persistent offenders - known in the trade as "revolving-door criminals" - are eventually given two-year sentences and tailor-made rehabilitation programmes. Fewer than 10% then return to prison after their release. In England and Wales, and in the United States, roughly half of those serving short sentences reoffend within two years, and the figure is often higher for young adults.

Eichhörnchen · 11-13-16, 03:32 AM

No joking (for a change) but this raises an interesting notion: we export our offenders to Holland and get them properly dealt with (we're always hearing how our prison service in the UK is at breaking point). The money we pay the Dutch might represent a real saving on our side and it would relieve our overburdened system. Could this work, do you think?

em2nought · 11-13-16, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eichhörnchen

No joking (for a change) but this raises an interesting notion: we export our offenders to Holland and get them properly dealt with (we're always hearing how our prison service in the UK is at breaking point). The money we pay the Dutch might represent a real saving on our side and it would relieve our overburdened system. Could this work, do you think?

I've always thought the USA should outsource prisons to China, but if the Netherlands gives us a fair price it sounds good to me.

Jimbuna · 11-13-16, 08:24 AM

Lived in Holland for a number of years and must admit to never having come across a prison or even heard mention of one by my Dutch friends and colleagues.

They obviously exist though

Spoon 11th · 11-13-16, 09:30 AM

I think Mars should be mankinds first prison planet.

Platapus · 11-13-16, 11:05 AM

Maybe there should be a balance between punishment and rehabilitation.

But it is so easy to just claim "these people can never be rehabilitated" and the problem cycle continues.

I guess punishment is cheaper than rehabilitation and that affects the profit bottom line.

11-13-16, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Maybe there should be a balance between punishment and rehabilitation.

But it is so easy to just claim "these people can never be rehabilitated" and the problem cycle continues.

I guess punishment is cheaper than rehabilitation and that affects the profit bottom line.

Punishment may be cheaper in the short run, but if the claimed Dutch re-offending rates are at all representative, they must be saving money in the long term. And cutting crime too. Which is the reason for jailing people in the first place.

August · 11-13-16, 11:29 AM

If we ended the War on Drugs we might find ourselves in the same situation.

Platapus · 11-13-16, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

And cutting crime too. Which is the reason for jailing people in the first place.

Unfortunately, that is only one reason for jailing people. I am glad that, at least at the federal level, we are getting away with for profit prisons. We will have to see what the next administration does concerning this.

11-13-16, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

If we ended the War on Drugs we might find ourselves in the same situation.

Indeed. I was watching a program the other day here in the UK about smuggling into prisons, and from what was said by prisoners, drugs are probably as easy to get inside as outside. So not only are we jailing vast numbers of people over drugs, but we are entirely failing to remove them from the root cause of the problem. And incidentally adding to a situation which seems to have resulted in corruption amongst significant numbers of prison officers - they seem to be a major conduit for the smuggling not just of drugs, but of mobile phones, weaponry etc. Clearly recreational drugs are always going to be banned from prisons, but reducing the numbers inside for drug-related crime should at least reduce the demand a bit. And free up resources to better tackle some of the other underlying causes of repeat offending.

Wolferz · 11-14-16, 08:21 PM

Here in the US drug related prison sentences are preferred. Especially for possession of small quantities of cannabis. It gives the prison industries non-violent workers to man their factories.
And here, once you're in the system, it's very hard to get out of it. Parolees have a tough time finding work and are more often than not railroaded right back behind bars for very small infractions to their parole terms.

It seems that we have the largest prison population on the planet and our justice system aims to keep it that way.

11-13-16, 03:32 AM	#2
Eichhörnchen Starte das Auto Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: The Fens Posts: 17,384 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	No joking (for a change) but this raises an interesting notion: we export our offenders to Holland and get them properly dealt with (we're always hearing how our prison service in the UK is at breaking point). The money we pay the Dutch might represent a real saving on our side and it would relieve our overburdened system. Could this work, do you think? __________________

11-13-16, 08:24 AM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,525 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Lived in Holland for a number of years and must admit to never having come across a prison or even heard mention of one by my Dutch friends and colleagues. They obviously exist though __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-13-16, 11:05 AM	#6
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,362 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Maybe there should be a balance between punishment and rehabilitation. But it is so easy to just claim "these people can never be rehabilitated" and the problem cycle continues. I guess punishment is cheaper than rehabilitation and that affects the profit bottom line. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

11-13-16, 11:29 AM	#8
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,197 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	If we ended the War on Drugs we might find ourselves in the same situation. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

11-14-16, 08:21 PM	#11
Wolferz Navy Seal Join Date: May 2007 Location: On a mighty quest for the Stick of Truth Posts: 5,963 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Here in the US drug related prison sentences are preferred. Especially for possession of small quantities of cannabis. It gives the prison industries non-violent workers to man their factories. And here, once you're in the system, it's very hard to get out of it. Parolees have a tough time finding work and are more often than not railroaded right back behind bars for very small infractions to their parole terms. It seems that we have the largest prison population on the planet and our justice system aims to keep it that way. __________________ Tomorrow never comes

11-13-16, 09:30 AM	#5
Spoon 11th Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Finland Posts: 689 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I think Mars should be mankinds first prison planet.