SIDE OF WINNERS

[jorgegonzalito]

After testing the Silent Hunter III, whose missions end always the same, I uninstalled. Reading books on German submarines, especially "Coffins steel" Herbert A.Werner is no wonder that in the end the u-boats always lost. The first glory years (1939-1942) were followed by a dark period when the German submarine fleet was almost totally destroyed. In the period 1943-1945 the u-boats did not hunt but were hunted. 85% of the crew did not survive the war, and the delay in the commissioning of submarines as the type XXI, forcing crews to fight all those with obsolete submarines, marching almost certain death. In short: a suicide. As if this were not enough, some designed Mods that make it even more difficult game conditions. At the end of these missions only "Mandrake" survives. So far the reality, what follows is my view: a game is to entertain and defuse the player, but playing in such conditions results in the opposite. Nobody in their right mind would risk unless 50% chance of winning. I have therefore decided to install Silent Hunter IV and fight on the side of the Americans against the evil Empire of Japan. At least that submarine warfare was more balanced conditions, but we'll see about testing the game and missions.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by jorgegonzalito

So far the reality, what follows is my view: a game is to entertain and defuse the player, but playing in such conditions results in the opposite. Nobody in their right mind would risk unless 50% chance of winning. I have therefore decided to install Silent Hunter IV and fight on the side of the Americans against the evil Empire of Japan. At least that submarine warfare was more balanced conditions, but we'll see about testing the game and missions.

Since it is a 'game' and a simulation you have the freedom of choice in choosing sides. But pure realism would say you don't have a choice and even more so you would not know the outcome of the war. Personally I have always enjoyed playing SH3/GWX in the later stages of the war with the expressed goal of surviving. Sinking unescorted ships gets boring after a while. Sinking anything in 1944 is an accomplishment. To each his own. Good hunting in the Pacific.

[Sailor Steve]

You can always use a low difficulty setting which makes it much easier to "win".

After playing sub sims for more almost forty years I play for the history, not for the "winning".

[jorgegonzalito]

Thank you very much to you both for your answers. It's always good to read the views of other comrades. I think it's not bad to try to find a game where the odds are more equitable, and I think in the Pacific theater of war that occurs in much greater proportion. Of course it all depends on the skill that everyone can develop. From what I've read Silent Hunter IV incorporates some improvements over SHII and that makes it more interesting. There is another component of ideological character to be taken into account, I do not feel comfortable playing a German submarine commander. With everything honorable and professional that may have been the Kriegsmarine, fighting for the wrong cause whose aims were dark. My generation (1950) was educated in the belief that the Allies were the good, the bad and the shaft. In this regard I believe that Japan was a danger that had to be crushed, a country of bloodthirsty fanatics and they deserved everything they got in retaliation. So sink ships and send to back a few hundred children of the rising sun, it can make you feel better after each collapse, knowing he has helped to accelerate the fall of that dangerous regime for the civilized world.

[Zosimus]

Well, if you want to modify the game to make it easier, it's not difficult. Some people here, for example, have changed the explosive power of torpedoes. With extreme numbers, one torpedo could destroy an entire convoy. Alternatively you could accelerate the rollout of the new types of submarines or improved torpedoes. Imagine starting in 1939 with T5s.

It wouldn't take more than an adjustment or two to let your submarine dive to 500 meters without difficulty. At that depth, you would never be picked up by ASDIC, and depth charges wouldn't hit you either.

As for whether the Germans were evil (or the Japanese for that matter), I would say definitely not. There are a number of cautions available historically that American destroyers would fire on or depth charge German submarines. The submarines were under very strict orders to never retaliate against American aggression for fear of bringing the US into the war. At the beginning of the game, we are ordered not to fire on UK capital ships, and not to fire on French ships at all because any attempts along those lines may injure the attempts to negotiate the UK and France out of the war.

I can think of at least one incident in which a u-boat attacked a ship, only to find that it contained Italian POWs. The u-boat broadcast its peaceful intentions and began the humanitarian rescue of the survivors only to find itself attacked by American forces soon thereafter. German u-boats attempted to follow the prize regulations whereas US subs waged unrestrained sub warfare from day one.

I think it's also safe to say that no u-boat captains ever commanded any German concentration camps.

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by Zosimus

I think it's also safe to say that no u-boat captains ever commanded any German concentration camps.

LOL

[20000 Leagues]

Originally Posted by u crank

Since it is a 'game' and a simulation you have the freedom of choice in choosing sides. But pure realism would say you don't have a choice and even more so you would not know the outcome of the war. Personally I have always enjoyed playing SH3/GWX in the later stages of the war with the expressed goal of surviving. Sinking unescorted ships gets boring after a while. Sinking anything in 1944 is an accomplishment. To each his own. Good hunting in the Pacific.

I'd have to second that! Some of my strategies changed as the war progressed. One of my first tactics to change when I switched to GWX was surface combat. No more duking it out with DD's or even ASW Trawlers. It did get very difficult, but I liked coming up with new tactics and modifying old ones. It would be nice now and then to just blow stuff up though!

[jorgegonzalito]

Zosimus: In your post you mean the so-called "Laconia incident" in which participated the U-156, I read about it, and I even saw a relatively modern film about the subject. In saying that Germany was fighting for the wrong cause and dark purposes, he had in mind the concentration camps but the simple fact that the country carried out a aggression war against other nations, so it was well demonstrated in Núremberg trials and is since then a crime, susceptible of being judged in any international court. With regard to improving the technical characteristics of the submarines and their weapons to play with advantage, I tried to accomplish missions in 1942 with a type XXI and the difference it is huge, but that is departing from the normal parameters. Nor can sink a convoy with atomic bomb, do not exaggerate. Anyway, we'll see how it goes in the Pacific Theater with the Americans. There are plenty of footage and even a TV series called "Silent Service".

[jorgegonzalito]

20000 Leagues:
Surfacing and cope with these gunboats or trawlers, it is an interesting idea, a little daring, but interesting. It is what the boat does not expect you to do. Emerges and shoot with the bow gun, even can run him since a type IX is much larger. Anything is better to stay submerged depth charges received for hours. Anyway if we will sink, we sink us fighting!

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by jorgegonzalito

Anyway, we'll see how it goes in the Pacific Theater with the Americans. .

It's a big enough ocean. Plenty of room for everyone.

[jorgegonzalito]

Jajaja! Yes! They said that the Atlantic Ocean was a lake compared with Pacific size.

[jorgegonzalito]

I had the perception that the submarine war in the Pacific was more balanced, and I was not wrong. The statistics I consulted Internet have surprised me: 70% of 863 German submarines some who were in action in World War II were lost, while only 15.6% of the 314 American submarines the same fate . Another interesting statistic indicates that both the German and American submarines sank the same proportion of tonnage per unit. A very noticeable difference to the technology superiority of the US navy submarines, especially the "Gato" and "Balao" classes, larger and better equipped is added.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

It's a big enough ocean. Plenty of room for everyone.

Awesome cartoon! Very cool, Torplexed!

[maillemaker]

After testing the Silent Hunter III, whose missions end always the same, I uninstalled. Reading books on German submarines, especially "Coffins steel" Herbert A.Werner is no wonder that in the end the u-boats always lost. The first glory years (1939-1942) were followed by a dark period when the German submarine fleet was almost totally destroyed. In the period 1943-1945 the u-boats did not hunt but were hunted. 85% of the crew did not survive the war, and the delay in the commissioning of submarines as the type XXI, forcing crews to fight all those with obsolete submarines, marching almost certain death. In short: a suicide. As if this were not enough, some designed Mods that make it even more difficult game conditions. At the end of these missions only "Mandrake" survives. So far the reality, what follows is my view: a game is to entertain and defuse the player, but playing in such conditions results in the opposite. Nobody in their right mind would risk unless 50% chance of winning. I have therefore decided to install Silent Hunter IV and fight on the side of the Americans against the evil Empire of Japan. At least that submarine warfare was more balanced conditions, but we'll see about testing the game and missions.

If you play with the objective of surviving until the end of the war, it is very, very difficult to do in SH3+GWX.

But it was in real life. Only a handful of combat commanders survived the war.

I played SH3+GWX starting every career in 1939, and played 100% realism with no map contacts. I played "dead is dead", starting over in 1939 when I died. After many years and careers, I finally survived the war. Then I moved on to SH5.

In terms of bang for buck of game cost investment, SH3 was unbeatable for me.

The trick to survival in SH3 is this:

Never attack where there is a possibility of escort reprisal without enough depth under keel for dives to 200+ meters. Basically, stay out of shallow water.

Past 1941, never attack where there is a possibility of escort reprisal without 100% hull integrity enabling full-depth diving capability.

Once hedgehogs make the scene, never ever attack when you can be detected. You must now attack escorted targets from 5000m+ and hope your firing solution and FAT torpedoes score hits. It's basically "Hail Mary" shots on convoys at that point and then turn and dive for max depth while your torpedoes are inbound at that point.

With the advent of homing torpedoes you can basically pick off escorts at will if you let them chase you and you set up your shots right so that the torpedo doesn't chase a merchant instead. If you have enough homers, you can wipe out the escort screen and then rape the convoy with whatever you have left.

With the Type XXI it's fun times again. Between homing torpedoes and the ability to play underwater slalom inside convoys at 17 knots you are almost invincible.

Steve

[Zosimus]

Originally Posted by jorgegonzalito

Zosimus: In your post you mean the so-called "Laconia incident" in which participated the U-156, I read about it, and I even saw a relatively modern film about the subject. In saying that Germany was fighting for the wrong cause and dark purposes, he had in mind the concentration camps but the simple fact that the country carried out a aggression war against other nations, so it was well demonstrated in Núremberg trials and is since then a crime, susceptible of being judged in any international court. With regard to improving the technical characteristics of the submarines and their weapons to play with advantage, I tried to accomplish missions in 1942 with a type XXI and the difference it is huge, but that is departing from the normal parameters. Nor can sink a convoy with atomic bomb, do not exaggerate. Anyway, we'll see how it goes in the Pacific Theater with the Americans. There are plenty of footage and even a TV series called "Silent Service".

I think you have a very unrealistic view of the history leading up to the war. There were no angels on any sides. Germany was prepared to go to war over Danzig, which had a German majority, and the Polish corridor, which did not have a German majority. Hitler, in fact, had the invasion all scheduled for 26 August, but halted the invasion a day earlier when the Brits and Poles agreed to return to the negotiating table.

Churchill's quotes after the war show amply that England cared nothing for Polish independence. It was merely a pretext to start a war with Germany. In the end the Poles were consigned lock, stock, and barrel to the Russians.