How are we defining noob?

wutzthedeal · 12-31-14, 05:16 AM

Hey guys. I'm ex-USAF and know nothing about what happens underwater. I've been searching YouTube and this forum and I think I might need some real hand-holding here for SH4.

The only concept I've even begun to understand about SH4 is intercepting. I watch these videos and read these guides and they say things like, "Then, get your range," or they pop out a compass or protractor and my thoughts are, "Wait, wait, and wait. Hold on. What are we doing here?" While I generally trust anybody named Werner when it comes to naval advice, I couldn't get his videos to load. If sub sim knowledge was on a 1 to 100 scale with 100 representing somebody who knows absolutely everything, I'm like a 3. The videos and guides I'm seeing seem to be starting around 15 or above. Go easy on me; I was an English major and math is not my friend. All help is appreciated! Where would you send an uber-noob? It was a miracle that I got through the convoy mission in sub school on the 2nd try because I had no effing idea what I was doing. Last time I played a sub sim was like 1996 on an old Commodore and all I remember is Russians and wired Mark torpedoes.

Spraug · 12-31-14, 05:54 AM

First of all, hi there.

Being quite new to this too, I can tell you, you can learn fast and you've come to the right forum.

The most important thing is not to get math right, but to have fun playing.

Personally, I would first play a career with only low/medium difficulty to learn about the simulated environment: what's it like "at sea"? How do convoys work? How do I approach them? Where do I find targets? How do escorts "think" and react? etc. Play with map contacts on and TDC (the targeting "computer") on automatic and send a couple of ships to the bottom.

Then you'll understand the videos so much better, because you have context.

The TDC is complex, but not really difficult

and it mainly does two things for you:
a) I you get at least two measurements on a target ship, it can calculate speed for you (very useful, but not 100% accurate, so get as many measurements as you can - well, several, not unlimited),
b) The position keeper will predict enemy movement for you (so long as the target does not change course), giving you firing solutions for your torpedoes.

Beyond that there are Dick O'Kane, sonar, radar, vectoring and half a bazillion other creative ways that push the system far beyond what it was designed for, which will allow you faster and very accurate attacks under diverse conditions.

Everybody (except maybe the actual submariners that learned everything in real-life) learned it step by step, so just take your time and it will come all by itself (mostly).

Just my two cents, the experts here will put it more accurately.

depthtok33l · 12-31-14, 07:00 AM

Welcome to the forums! I'm that guy from YouTube

.

wutzthedeal · 12-31-14, 08:23 AM

Great responses, thank you. Hey, I have really enjoyed these YouTube vids (especially some of the awkward humor), but for me, it's like getting into verb conjugation on the first day of an introductory French class. I'm starting to wonder if this stuff can actually be dumbed-down enough for me to find the first few rungs of the ladder! PS I know why they have to do psych. profiles on potential submariners now. Takes a special character imo.

Sailor Steve · 12-31-14, 09:58 AM

Welcome aboard!

As Spraug suggested, the best thing you can do right now is play in the easiest mode. It does the targeting automagically; all you have to do is make sure the little arrow is green. I mostly play SH3, and in that one they had an in-between mode, in which you had it set for Manual Targeting but your 1st Mate did all the info gathering for you, which made it easy but also made it feel real.

Unfortunately SH4 does away with that, so you're stuck with it either being very easy or very hard. My math skills are pretty much non-existent, as are my gathering skills, so after almost eight years I still play on the easy mode.

All that said, there are people here who are very good at it. Expect help soon.

Spraug · 12-31-14, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

… they had an in-between mode, in which you had it set for Manual Targeting but your 1st Mate did all the info gathering for you, which made it easy but also made it feel real …

Now that's something I'd like in SH4, too. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist. Maybe someone can program a new SH? Ubisoft maybe?

Anyway. Start with easy. Then, when you go for manual TDC, leave the map contacts on. That way you can check all your measurements and get a better feeling for them.

Bye the way, the math is not that difficult if I'm not mistaken. Your attack angle is easily calculable as:

alpha = arcsin {(a*sin gamma)/(a^2+b^2-2*a*b*cos gamma)}, where:
a = targets speed,
b = torpedo speed,
gamma = 180°-Angle on Bow.

And believe me: NOBODY does that calculation! Really nobody. You can play this game without ANY math and have a challenge and fun at the same time. Just get used to it first, then you start fiddling with the gritty stuff and eventually with mods.

Hambone307 · 01-02-15, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutzthedeal

Great responses, thank you. Hey, I have really enjoyed these YouTube vids (especially some of the awkward humor), but for me, it's like getting into verb conjugation on the first day of an introductory French class. I'm starting to wonder if this stuff can actually be dumbed-down enough for me to find the first few rungs of the ladder! PS I know why they have to do psych. profiles on potential submariners now. Takes a special character imo.

Say what? Verb conjugation? I'm just a simple paramedic. English isn't my best skill.

At any rate, I have scanned through the previous posts and I don't think anyone has mentioned the 3:15 trick to get both speed and heading on a target. It was probably one of the best tricks I picked up on from other members of this forum.

The application is simple: Find a target and get his position relative to your boat. The next thing you need to do is put a mark at the end of the contact line. Pull up your stopwatch and start it. After 3 minutes 15 seconds, place another mark on the contact line. Grab your ruler and measure the distance between the two points and that will give you a fairly accurate speed, and his heading.

Example: Target spotted bearing 210, long range; place mark. Start watch and wait 3:15. Place second mark. Distance between marks measures 8000. This gives an approximate speed of 8 kts. At the same time, draw another overlapping line that extends past the original. This gives a target heading of 180.

Now if you are using automatic targeting, the speed and heading are irrelevant to your actual firing, but once you know the speed and heading, this will tell you where your proper firing position will be, and roughly how fast the target is moving to your intercept point.

If I have made any errors in my math, please feel free to correct me.

CapnZero · 01-03-15, 12:42 AM

Hambone307...

I remember reading about that timing approach, but I think there is a variation to it. As I recall the time is dependent on what type of units of measurement you are using:

Metric uses 3:15.
Imperial uses 2:58 (or actually 3:00).

Is my memory fogged or did I miss something?

CapnZero · 12-31-14, 08:05 PM

Glad to see a newer player than I joining the group!

You should be able to find a video called Legions SH4 Noob Guide. It is quite good and about 20 minutes in length covering exactly that subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutzthedeal

Hey guys. I'm ex-USAF and know nothing about what happens underwater. I've been searching YouTube and this forum and I think I might need some real hand-holding here for SH4.

The only concept I've even begun to understand about SH4 is intercepting. I watch these videos and read these guides and they say things like, "Then, get your range," or they pop out a compass or protractor and my thoughts are, "Wait, wait, and wait. Hold on. What are we doing here?" While I generally trust anybody named Werner when it comes to naval advice, I couldn't get his videos to load. If sub sim knowledge was on a 1 to 100 scale with 100 representing somebody who knows absolutely everything, I'm like a 3. The videos and guides I'm seeing seem to be starting around 15 or above. Go easy on me; I was an English major and math is not my friend. All help is appreciated! Where would you send an uber-noob? It was a miracle that I got through the convoy mission in sub school on the 2nd try because I had no effing idea what I was doing. Last time I played a sub sim was like 1996 on an old Commodore and all I remember is Russians and wired Mark torpedoes.

Aktungbby · 12-31-14, 10:29 PM

CapnZero!

wutzthedeal · 01-01-15, 08:37 AM

Thank you all for the warm welcome. Now I have hope; I can just play on easy settings. That I can do. I'm watching the Noob guide (you won't believe this but it's true) for the third time now, trying to fully understand everything. One thing I gotta give sub sim people and I'll pat myself on the back for a second, too, is the patience required. Sub sims and those that require similar patience (realistic sniper games, hitman games, etc.) separate the men from the boys. Anyway I went ahead and started the career mode and am heading across the Pacific. Who the hell puts an airman in a submarine? Thank you computers and software.

Jimbuna · 01-01-15, 08:45 AM

Welcome to SubSim CapnZero

Jimbuna · 01-01-15, 08:47 AM

Welcome wutzthedeal

fireftr18 · 01-01-15, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutzthedeal

Thank you all for the warm welcome. Now I have hope; I can just play on easy settings. That I can do. I'm watching the Noob guide (you won't believe this but it's true) for the third time now, trying to fully understand everything. One thing I gotta give sub sim people and I'll pat myself on the back for a second, too, is the patience required. Sub sims and those that require similar patience (realistic sniper games, hitman games, etc.) separate the men from the boys. Anyway I went ahead and started the career mode and am heading across the Pacific. Who the hell puts an airman in a submarine? Thank you computers and software.

I can very easily believe you watched it three or more times. There is a lot of information, and a lot to learn. There is a large learning curve, but once you learn it, it's great.

CapnZero · 01-02-15, 02:06 AM

Thanks to those who bid me welcome.

Whether we were zoomies, grunts, pounders, or civvies, I guess we are all skwids now!

12-31-14, 05:16 AM	#1
wutzthedeal Swabbie Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	How are we defining noob? Hey guys. I'm ex-USAF and know nothing about what happens underwater. I've been searching YouTube and this forum and I think I might need some real hand-holding here for SH4. The only concept I've even begun to understand about SH4 is intercepting. I watch these videos and read these guides and they say things like, "Then, get your range," or they pop out a compass or protractor and my thoughts are, "Wait, wait, and wait. Hold on. What are we doing here?" While I generally trust anybody named Werner when it comes to naval advice, I couldn't get his videos to load. If sub sim knowledge was on a 1 to 100 scale with 100 representing somebody who knows absolutely everything, I'm like a 3. The videos and guides I'm seeing seem to be starting around 15 or above. Go easy on me; I was an English major and math is not my friend. All help is appreciated! Where would you send an uber-noob? It was a miracle that I got through the convoy mission in sub school on the 2nd try because I had no effing idea what I was doing. Last time I played a sub sim was like 1996 on an old Commodore and all I remember is Russians and wired Mark torpedoes.

12-31-14, 05:54 AM	#2
Spraug Helmsman Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 105 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Don't panic! First of all, hi there. Being quite new to this too, I can tell you, you can learn fast and you've come to the right forum. The most important thing is not to get math right, but to have fun playing. Personally, I would first play a career with only low/medium difficulty to learn about the simulated environment: what's it like "at sea"? How do convoys work? How do I approach them? Where do I find targets? How do escorts "think" and react? etc. Play with map contacts on and TDC (the targeting "computer") on automatic and send a couple of ships to the bottom. Then you'll understand the videos so much better, because you have context. The TDC is complex, but not really difficult and it mainly does two things for you: a) I you get at least two measurements on a target ship, it can calculate speed for you (very useful, but not 100% accurate, so get as many measurements as you can - well, several, not unlimited), b) The position keeper will predict enemy movement for you (so long as the target does not change course), giving you firing solutions for your torpedoes. Beyond that there are Dick O'Kane, sonar, radar, vectoring and half a bazillion other creative ways that push the system far beyond what it was designed for, which will allow you faster and very accurate attacks under diverse conditions. Everybody (except maybe the actual submariners that learned everything in real-life) learned it step by step, so just take your time and it will come all by itself (mostly). Just my two cents, the experts here will put it more accurately. __________________ Playing: Windows 10 - Steam - Silent Hunter 4 v1.5 1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5 1_TMO_25_small_patch RSRDC_TMO_V502 RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1 SCAF for RSRDC v502_2.0 IJN_Radar_Fix_2 Last edited by Spraug; 12-31-14 at 05:56 AM. Reason: typos

12-31-14, 09:58 AM	#5
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Welcome aboard! As Spraug suggested, the best thing you can do right now is play in the easiest mode. It does the targeting automagically; all you have to do is make sure the little arrow is green. I mostly play SH3, and in that one they had an in-between mode, in which you had it set for Manual Targeting but your 1st Mate did all the info gathering for you, which made it easy but also made it feel real. Unfortunately SH4 does away with that, so you're stuck with it either being very easy or very hard. My math skills are pretty much non-existent, as are my gathering skills, so after almost eight years I still play on the easy mode. All that said, there are people here who are very good at it. Expect help soon. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

01-03-15, 12:42 AM	#8
CapnZero Nub Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 3 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Timing Hambone307... I remember reading about that timing approach, but I think there is a variation to it. As I recall the time is dependent on what type of units of measurement you are using: Metric uses 3:15. Imperial uses 2:58 (or actually 3:00). Is my memory fogged or did I miss something?

12-31-14, 10:29 PM	#10
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 29,997 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	welcome aboard! CapnZero! __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

12-31-14, 07:00 AM	#3
depthtok33l Sparky Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 156 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Welcome to the forums! I'm that guy from YouTube .

12-31-14, 08:23 AM	#4
wutzthedeal Swabbie Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Great responses, thank you. Hey, I have really enjoyed these YouTube vids (especially some of the awkward humor), but for me, it's like getting into verb conjugation on the first day of an introductory French class. I'm starting to wonder if this stuff can actually be dumbed-down enough for me to find the first few rungs of the ladder! PS I know why they have to do psych. profiles on potential submariners now. Takes a special character imo.

01-01-15, 08:37 AM	#11
wutzthedeal Swabbie Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Thank you all for the warm welcome. Now I have hope; I can just play on easy settings. That I can do. I'm watching the Noob guide (you won't believe this but it's true) for the third time now, trying to fully understand everything. One thing I gotta give sub sim people and I'll pat myself on the back for a second, too, is the patience required. Sub sims and those that require similar patience (realistic sniper games, hitman games, etc.) separate the men from the boys. Anyway I went ahead and started the career mode and am heading across the Pacific. Who the hell puts an airman in a submarine? Thank you computers and software. Last edited by wutzthedeal; 01-01-15 at 10:16 AM.

01-01-15, 08:45 AM	#12
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,501 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Welcome to SubSim CapnZero __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-01-15, 08:47 AM	#13
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,501 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Welcome wutzthedeal __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-02-15, 02:06 AM	#15
CapnZero Nub Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 3 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Welcome Thanks to those who bid me welcome. Whether we were zoomies, grunts, pounders, or civvies, I guess we are all skwids now!