How English became the language of science

Skybird · 10-13-14, 03:36 AM

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29543708

Bloody war. Would have been so much easier writing without it.

Tango589 · 10-13-14, 03:59 AM

Only for you, not for English people...

Jimbuna · 10-13-14, 05:19 AM

Other than footbal (and not always) it should be par for the course for you by now Sky

Oberon · 10-13-14, 06:24 AM

It's funny really, once upon a time the language of science looked quite similar to the language that people run away from these days...

Eichhörnchen · 10-13-14, 06:37 AM

I'm not getting involved in this; I fear I may shortly be in trouble with Schroeder over how German became the preferred language of English sitcoms...

Oberon · 10-13-14, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eichhornchen

I'm not getting involved in this; I fear I may shortly be in trouble with Schroeder over how German became the preferred language of English sitcoms...

ikalugin · 10-13-14, 09:31 AM

It is more about American post Cold War dominance if anything.

Catfish · 10-13-14, 11:00 AM

^ right ..

From Oberon's article:

"After World War One, Belgian, French and British scientists organised a boycott of scientists from Germany and Austria. They were blocked from conferences and weren't able to publish in Western European journals."

" ... In Ohio, Wisconsin and Minnesota there were many, many German speakers. World War One changed all that.
"German is criminalised in 23 states. You're not allowed to speak it in public, you're not allowed to use it in the radio, you're not allowed to teach it to a child under the age of 10 ..."

The law was officially changed in 1923, but most states went on .. and then there was WW2 ..

But the article is wrong in several points:
" ... So you can see how at a certain moments, certain words get formed, and the tendency was for Germans, in particular, to take French and English terms and translate them ..."

No you can't. German scientists often used latin and greek words, and translated those - not necessarily the english terms.
There was also a certain reluctance to use english, becasue the language is a bit inexact just of all when it comes to science.
And i think they were right, from my line of experience when talking to english-speaking people, just of all in technical and scientific terms it is sometimes hard to directly point out certain processes, or to describe how things work. But probably only for Germans or .. well, at least for me

Eichhörnchen · 10-13-14, 11:15 AM

Yeah, especially if it's me standing in front of you...

Aktungbby · 10-13-14, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

It is more about American post Cold War dominance if anything.

YEAH! PERFECT ENGLISH FROM A GOOD GERMAN BOY!

=

just thbbbn'!

Catfish · 10-13-14, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eichhornchen

Yeah, especially if it's me standing in front of you...

Yeah but it's because of me speaking

Eichhörnchen · 10-13-14, 02:38 PM

No, your English is a heck of a lot better than my German (I might try a bit in a minute). The British are, in general, appallingly lazy about learning other languages: aber, es tut mir leid... Tschus!

ikalugin · 10-13-14, 09:06 PM

I wonder if military science counts, as all major works on it exist only in Russian. (Slight troll, still true)

Skybird · 10-13-14, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

I wonder if military science counts, as all major works on it exist only in Russian. (Slight troll, still true)

Which is no surprise since the way the Sovjets implemented military science as basis for their post-WWII doctrine was a unique Russian invention that in that academic understanding is not found anywhere else.

With Russian forces since longer time now being in a process of redesigning and modenrization and imporovement and with reported effects of them having won much greater flexibility and and command-and-control abilities, I wonder to what degree the cold war fundament of military science still is applied in their forces.

ikalugin · 10-13-14, 11:58 PM

WW2 and pre WW2 as well actually, the best original work would be by Svechin I think.

The Soviet tradition is still very much applicable, even if it did deteriorate a lot after the breakdown of the USSR. What I do find sad is the apparent lack of academic research efforts by the officers (as well as the professional mil scientists in their institutions), the way they were conducted in the Soviet times.

P.s. Unfortunately a lot of the Soviet past is forgotten, for example current commanders tend to be ignorant of the late Soviet theoretical and practical developments of the network centric warfare and tend to just blindly follow foreign works even though Soviets were first to field an automated troop control/C3I system and recon strike/fire complexes.

10-13-14, 03:36 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,611 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	How English became the language of science http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29543708 Bloody war. Would have been so much easier writing without it. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-13-14, 03:59 AM	#2
Tango589 Still crazy as ever! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: A little south of sanity Posts: 3,375 Downloads: 180 Uploads: 1	Only for you, not for English people... __________________ Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way...

10-13-14, 05:19 AM	#3
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Other than footbal (and not always) it should be par for the course for you by now Sky __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

10-13-14, 06:24 AM	#4
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	It's funny really, once upon a time the language of science looked quite similar to the language that people run away from these days...

10-13-14, 06:37 AM	#5
Eichhörnchen Starte das Auto Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: The Fens Posts: 17,378 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I'm not getting involved in this; I fear I may shortly be in trouble with Schroeder over how German became the preferred language of English sitcoms...

10-13-14, 09:31 AM	#7
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	It is more about American post Cold War dominance if anything.

10-13-14, 11:00 AM	#8
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,766 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^ right .. From Oberon's article: "After World War One, Belgian, French and British scientists organised a boycott of scientists from Germany and Austria. They were blocked from conferences and weren't able to publish in Western European journals." " ... In Ohio, Wisconsin and Minnesota there were many, many German speakers. World War One changed all that. "German is criminalised in 23 states. You're not allowed to speak it in public, you're not allowed to use it in the radio, you're not allowed to teach it to a child under the age of 10 ..." The law was officially changed in 1923, but most states went on .. and then there was WW2 .. But the article is wrong in several points: " ... So you can see how at a certain moments, certain words get formed, and the tendency was for Germans, in particular, to take French and English terms and translate them ..." No you can't. German scientists often used latin and greek words, and translated those - not necessarily the english terms. There was also a certain reluctance to use english, becasue the language is a bit inexact just of all when it comes to science. And i think they were right, from my line of experience when talking to english-speaking people, just of all in technical and scientific terms it is sometimes hard to directly point out certain processes, or to describe how things work. But probably only for Germans or .. well, at least for me

10-13-14, 11:15 AM	#9
Eichhörnchen Starte das Auto Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: The Fens Posts: 17,378 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Yeah, especially if it's me standing in front of you...

10-13-14, 02:38 PM	#12
Eichhörnchen Starte das Auto Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: The Fens Posts: 17,378 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	No, your English is a heck of a lot better than my German (I might try a bit in a minute). The British are, in general, appallingly lazy about learning other languages: aber, es tut mir leid... Tschus!

10-13-14, 09:06 PM	#13
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I wonder if military science counts, as all major works on it exist only in Russian. (Slight troll, still true)

10-13-14, 11:58 PM	#15
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	WW2 and pre WW2 as well actually, the best original work would be by Svechin I think. The Soviet tradition is still very much applicable, even if it did deteriorate a lot after the breakdown of the USSR. What I do find sad is the apparent lack of academic research efforts by the officers (as well as the professional mil scientists in their institutions), the way they were conducted in the Soviet times. P.s. Unfortunately a lot of the Soviet past is forgotten, for example current commanders tend to be ignorant of the late Soviet theoretical and practical developments of the network centric warfare and tend to just blindly follow foreign works even though Soviets were first to field an automated troop control/C3I system and recon strike/fire complexes.